Comments on: I Had No Idea These Guys Were Still Around http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/ Free Minds, Free Markets, Free Booze Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:25:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Timothy http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-27361 Timothy Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:26:03 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-27361 <em>I hope we can agree that the human being is just fine the way it is, and that introducing technologies which change us physically and mentally is immoral and undemocratic.</em> Well, you hope in vain. Every technology changes the human, as Andy mentioned: in a "natural" environment we die of typhoid or malaria usually by the time we're 40. Agricultural technology has made us taller (better nutrition), we can replace joints with titanium and improve the lives of millions of people, we have <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/09/25/bionic.arm/" rel="nofollow">bionic</a> <a href="http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v2/n7/full/nn0799_583.html" rel="nofollow">limbs</a>, a technology that seems only likely to improve. Eric, people like you locked up Galileo. Technology is morally neutral, anything will and can be used for good or for ill. The real enemy are the luddites, if they'd had their way all along we'd still think that the sun revolved around the Earth, that the world was flat, and that flies spontaneously generated out of garbabe. I hope we can agree that the human being is just fine the way it is, and that introducing technologies which change us physically and mentally is immoral and undemocratic.

Well, you hope in vain. Every technology changes the human, as Andy mentioned: in a “natural” environment we die of typhoid or malaria usually by the time we’re 40. Agricultural technology has made us taller (better nutrition), we can replace joints with titanium and improve the lives of millions of people, we have bionic limbs, a technology that seems only likely to improve.

Eric, people like you locked up Galileo. Technology is morally neutral, anything will and can be used for good or for ill. The real enemy are the luddites, if they’d had their way all along we’d still think that the sun revolved around the Earth, that the world was flat, and that flies spontaneously generated out of garbabe.

]]> By: Andy http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-27304 Andy Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:09:59 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-27304 Is Gatorade an "unnatural" improvement to the soldier? What about radios? What about vehicles? You don't even have a point to your post other than let's all get along. I disagree with your premise that technologies that change us physically and mentally are wrong. Drugs and immunizations extended life expectancies, and birth control affected morality. Alcohol did both. The question is, "is it wrong for the UO to accept 'DoD' grants?" Obviously no - and for many reasons. We get grants from many other departments which are no less evil than the DoD. Another might be, "is it wrong to create technologies that change humans physically and/or morally?" Obviously no too. The morality come from the choice of the individual. Do I think it's wrong to use these technologies? To a certain extent yes. Is it wrong they exist - No. Any other questions you need answered? Is Gatorade an “unnatural” improvement to the soldier? What about radios? What about vehicles? You don’t even have a point to your post other than let’s all get along.

I disagree with your premise that technologies that change us physically and mentally are wrong. Drugs and immunizations extended life expectancies, and birth control affected morality. Alcohol did both.

The question is, “is it wrong for the UO to accept ‘DoD’ grants?” Obviously no - and for many reasons. We get grants from many other departments which are no less evil than the DoD.

Another might be, “is it wrong to create technologies that change humans physically and/or morally?” Obviously no too. The morality come from the choice of the individual. Do I think it’s wrong to use these technologies? To a certain extent yes. Is it wrong they exist - No.

Any other questions you need answered?

]]> By: eric http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-27238 eric Fri, 28 Jul 2006 03:45:46 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-27238 DoD research has produced good things for society. This is an unavoidable historical truth. However, nano-research for military purposes is not limited to machines, programs or new technologies. In drastic contrast, nano promises to reinvent the soldier, leaving little room for personal considerations, ethics, humanity concerns or morality. It is important to debate the impact of nanotech innovations on American citizens in the military, and its implications of "improving the human." While I most likely stand on the left side of most of this publications readers, I hope we can agree that the human being is just fine the way it is, and that introducing technologies which change us physically and mentally is immoral and undemocratic. Let us just say that nano can become a "good thing" even if we skip the military's involvement. Does anyone really believe that technologies like the internet and gsp would have gone undiscovered if not for military funding. DoD research has produced good things for society. This is an unavoidable historical truth. However, nano-research for military purposes is not limited to machines, programs or new technologies. In drastic contrast, nano promises to reinvent the soldier, leaving little room for personal considerations, ethics, humanity concerns or morality. It is important to debate the impact of nanotech innovations on American citizens in the military, and its implications of “improving the human.” While I most likely stand on the left side of most of this publications readers, I hope we can agree that the human being is just fine the way it is, and that introducing technologies which change us physically and mentally is immoral and undemocratic. Let us just say that nano can become a “good thing” even if we skip the military’s involvement. Does anyone really believe that technologies like the internet and gsp would have gone undiscovered if not for military funding.

]]> By: Andy http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26392 Andy Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:07:48 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26392 Pithy Tyler? I think you've been watching too much O'Reily. Pithy Tyler? I think you’ve been watching too much O’Reily.

]]> By: Andy http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26391 Andy Wed, 26 Jul 2006 02:07:15 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26391 WTF are you talking about? The point was some good things have come from military research. Maybe you haven't read any of my "right-brained" articles, or followed my ASUO campain, or even talked to me - but what's wrong with that argument? Huh? Isn't that a good point for DoD funded research grants for the UO? Apprently you haven't read the debate FAQ from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy I believe your argument suffers from "Ad hominem" fallacy. Another argument? The military is a good thing to have and so is increased University funding...so the military pays for research and both sides win? I mean, the taxpayers always lose but hey at least it isn't going to [insert socialist welfare program here]. WTF are you talking about? The point was some good things have come from military research. Maybe you haven’t read any of my “right-brained” articles, or followed my ASUO campain, or even talked to me - but what’s wrong with that argument? Huh? Isn’t that a good point for DoD funded research grants for the UO?

Apprently you haven’t read the debate FAQ from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy

I believe your argument suffers from “Ad hominem” fallacy.

Another argument? The military is a good thing to have and so is increased University funding…so the military pays for research and both sides win? I mean, the taxpayers always lose but hey at least it isn’t going to [insert socialist welfare program here].

]]> By: Tyler http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26365 Tyler Wed, 26 Jul 2006 01:05:56 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26365 Thanks for the pithy insight, Poo. Do you also subscribe to the Crazy Town Newsletter? Thanks for the pithy insight, Poo. Do you also subscribe to the Crazy Town Newsletter?

]]> By: Poo http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26290 Poo Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:42:58 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26290 Andy, you're a twit (a foolishly annoying person). I saw on television the other day these children talking about how they'd rather live in a world with good and evil than one of just good, because life would be boring, without challenge and lacking the rare moments of really feeling alive. These were 8th graders, Andy. You remind me of the college students having this same discussion. Get a new argument. Of course the military created the Internet. And what a gift from God GPS is. But if you're going to speak, or blog, use a little more of your right brain, if you have one. Andy, you’re a twit (a foolishly annoying person). I saw on television the other day these children talking about how they’d rather live in a world with good and evil than one of just good, because life would be boring, without challenge and lacking the rare moments of really feeling alive. These were 8th graders, Andy. You remind me of the college students having this same discussion. Get a new argument. Of course the military created the Internet. And what a gift from God GPS is. But if you’re going to speak, or blog, use a little more of your right brain, if you have one.

]]> By: Shaheen A. Al-Haddad http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26161 Shaheen A. Al-Haddad Tue, 25 Jul 2006 13:58:25 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26161 Olly, Please do yourself a huge favor and watch the videos at www.universalseed.org. Olly,

Please do yourself a huge favor and watch the videos at http://www.universalseed.org.

]]> By: Timothy http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26127 Timothy Tue, 25 Jul 2006 12:26:50 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26127 Maybe we should form an evil 80s cover band and call it Disinformation Society. Maybe we should form an evil 80s cover band and call it Disinformation Society.

]]> By: Olly http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26003 Olly Tue, 25 Jul 2006 05:15:16 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-26003 <blockquote>Are you a disinformation tool? Or are you just extremely misguided? It really is one or the other.</blockquote> You got me, Shaheen: I'm part of the conspiracy. We call ourselves the Sacred Order of Occam's Razor. <blockquote>That’s not to say he’s wrong– but it’s telling that he also professes to be convinced that WMD’s are still hiding someplace in Iraq.</blockquote> Right, because that would be <em>silly</em>.

Are you a disinformation tool? Or are you just extremely misguided? It really is one or the other.

You got me, Shaheen: I’m part of the conspiracy. We call ourselves the Sacred Order of Occam’s Razor.

That’s not to say he’s wrong– but it’s telling that he also professes to be convinced that WMD’s are still hiding someplace in Iraq.

Right, because that would be silly.

]]> By: Bryan http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25963 Bryan Tue, 25 Jul 2006 02:33:18 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25963 Shaheen, Andy has a point. In the hypothetical scenario in which you were in possession of an indisputable paper trail leading all the way to 9/11's proverbial smoking gun, the Oregon Commentator would simply not be the most advantageous outlet for your set of information. We're a college publication-- a nominally conservative publication on a notoriously radical campus. Assume, for a moment, an unqualified acceptance on our part of the scenario you posit here. Our hypothetical championing of your cause could not conceivably benefit your goal of introducing the information as credible before the American people. Maybe I can only speak for myself, but I'm honored that you thought of us. We all enjoyed your previous contribution, which we printed. For my part, I'd be glad to brainstorm with you regarding your perception of this tragedy. bryan.roberts@gmail.com That being said: Weldon is a highly unusual congressperson. That's not to say he's wrong-- but it's telling that he also professes to be convinced that WMD's are still hiding someplace in Iraq. Also: Cynthia McKinney is sort of awesome. Since the link was posted twice: Cynthia McKinney is sort of awesome. Shaheen, Andy has a point. In the hypothetical scenario in which you were in possession of an indisputable paper trail leading all the way to 9/11’s proverbial smoking gun, the Oregon Commentator would simply not be the most advantageous outlet for your set of information. We’re a college publication– a nominally conservative publication on a notoriously radical campus. Assume, for a moment, an unqualified acceptance on our part of the scenario you posit here. Our hypothetical championing of your cause could not conceivably benefit your goal of introducing the information as credible before the American people.

Maybe I can only speak for myself, but I’m honored that you thought of us. We all enjoyed your previous contribution, which we printed. For my part, I’d be glad to brainstorm with you regarding your perception of this tragedy.

bryan.roberts@gmail.com

That being said: Weldon is a highly unusual congressperson. That’s not to say he’s wrong– but it’s telling that he also professes to be convinced that WMD’s are still hiding someplace in Iraq.

Also: Cynthia McKinney is sort of awesome.
Since the link was posted twice: Cynthia McKinney is sort of awesome.

]]> By: Niedermeyer http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25839 Niedermeyer Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:50:14 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25839 Shaheen- A world in which every cause taken up by every congressperson were true/worth taking up would be scarier than a world in which 9/11 was carried out by Supreme Court justices. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=77991" rel="nofollow">case in point</a> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=77991" rel="nofollow"> case in point</a> <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/05/10/news/top_stories/21_35_485_9_06.txt" rel="nofollow"> case in point</a> Just a few recent examples of why being in congress hurts your credibility more than it helps. Shaheen-

A world in which every cause taken up by every congressperson were true/worth taking up would be scarier than a world in which 9/11 was carried out by Supreme Court justices.

case in point
case in point
case in point

Just a few recent examples of why being in congress hurts your credibility more than it helps.

]]> By: Shaheen A. Al-Haddad http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25749 Shaheen A. Al-Haddad Mon, 24 Jul 2006 11:26:18 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25749 Olly, Are you a disinformation tool? Or are you just extremely misguided? It really is one or the other. Olly,

Are you a disinformation tool? Or are you just extremely misguided? It really is one or the other.

]]> By: Olly http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25502 Olly Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:34:55 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25502 <blockquote>Republican Representative Curt Weldon calls the 9/11 cover up the biggest story of our lifetime. Imagine running that on the front page of your magazine. You’d be hailed as heroes.</blockquote>You know, guys, he's right. I think the "Curt Weldon Is Out Of His Goddamn Mind" issue would be a huge success.

Republican Representative Curt Weldon calls the 9/11 cover up the biggest story of our lifetime. Imagine running that on the front page of your magazine. You’d be hailed as heroes.

You know, guys, he’s right. I think the “Curt Weldon Is Out Of His Goddamn Mind” issue would be a huge success.

]]> By: Andy http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25480 Andy Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:20:38 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25480 Those fucking idiots, SDS, realize the internet was created by the military too right? And GPS? Those fucking idiots, SDS, realize the internet was created by the military too right? And GPS?

]]> By: Andy http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25473 Andy Mon, 24 Jul 2006 02:16:30 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25473 Uhm, I'm not sure you understand our target audience or even distribution capabilities, but I greatly appreciate your compliment. The belief that the Commentator can affect national change is a common, yet misguided ideal. But really, thanks Shaheen! Uhm, I’m not sure you understand our target audience or even distribution capabilities, but I greatly appreciate your compliment. The belief that the Commentator can affect national change is a common, yet misguided ideal. But really, thanks Shaheen!

]]> By: Shaheen Al-Haddad http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25403 Shaheen Al-Haddad Mon, 24 Jul 2006 00:45:47 +0000 http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2006/07/20/i-had-no-idea-these-guys-were-still-around/#comment-25403 9/11, boys. 9/11. Republican Representative Curt Weldon calls the 9/11 cover up the biggest story of our lifetime. Imagine running that on the front page of your magazine. You'd be hailed as heroes. 9/11, boys. 9/11.

Republican Representative Curt Weldon calls the 9/11 cover up the biggest story of our lifetime. Imagine running that on the front page of your magazine. You’d be hailed as heroes.

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