Electronic Insurgent
As Tim mentioned earlier there’s been a bit of a brouhaha over the latest issue of the Student Insurgent, the University of Oregon’s student-run Marxist/Anarchist publication.
In their latest issue, the Insurgent Collective decided to print a number of depictions of Jesus in various poses. As a headline on page 11 of the issue makes clear, their purpose in printing the comics was to confront Christians. And as Collective individual “Jessica” says on page 16, “I have to say it is really fun to offend people.”
Regardless of content, people and organizations should not be censored for speech that’s considered “offensive” or “hateful.” Indeed, we support the publication and round denunciation of ideas and opinions which are bigoted or inappropriate. The best way to counter the free expression of bad ideas is with the free expression of good ideas.
Of course, the Insurgent collective does not necessarily agree with us. Last year, Collective individual Pira Kelly was one of the loudest supporters of the effort to defund the Oregon Commentator. She passed out pink armbands symbolizing the fight against free speech before our budget hearing. What a difference a year makes!
Anyway, we’ve put the Insurgent issue in question up in .pdf form since we have no ideological qualms about technology. Please note that it is not our opinion and does not reflect this author’s own views or beliefs. Also, since the format of their magazine was too wide for our scanner we’ve had to splice each page together. If a member of the Collective would like to put a better copy on the web, I know that I for one would appreciate it.
UPDATE: I notice that we’ve been getting a significant bit of traffic thanks to links from Hot Air and a few other blogs. For those of you who are new: thanks for visiting. You may have noticed that the Student Insurgent mentioned our own publication of the Muhammed cartoons as one of their justifications for printing the anti-Christian drawings. I encourage you to read the issue in question and decide for yourself if the Commentator’s presentation and editorial are comparable in tone and substance to the Insurgent’s. As always, I believe that context is everything.
UPDATE: You can find an archive of our blog’s coverage of the Insurgent (including more recent tidbits) here.
April 21st, 2006 at 10:33 pm
Jesus cartoons aside, I’m fucking offended by “use herbs for emergency contraception”. Dudes, that means there are going to be SO MANY pregnant hippie chicks. That’s wrong, sick and wrong.
April 26th, 2006 at 6:15 pm
[…] WorldNetDaily, America’s Most Trusted News Source, has an article about Catholic League President Bill Donohue’s efforts to complain to UO President “John Frohnmayer.” Donohue has apparantly learned of the Student Insurgent’s recent issue and, angry at a depiction of Jesus and a friend “sporting erections,” has now directed his ire towards our fair state. […]
April 26th, 2006 at 10:06 pm
Of course you can publish what you want. The problem is that most people will find your anti-Semitic depictions of a middle-east Jew boring. While you’re at it, why don’t you defy the Supreme Court case NY v. Ferber (1982) and show how you can subvert middle class sensibilities and print child pornography in the Insurgent? I DARE YOU. But you won’t–because deep down you’re boring corporate conformist middle class pasty white flat-ass males (and a few females) WHO PRETEND TO BE BAAAAD. What a bunch of WUSSIES.
April 27th, 2006 at 9:25 am
[…] There’s nothing more about this on the Emerald website, so I’m not sure what the current status of the Insurgent is. The Oregon Commentator (the conservative student newspaper, remember) managed to scare up a copy, though — and has posted the entire issue, uncensored, on its own website. As far as I know, it’s the only place to view the images online. Here’s the cover, which is precisely as witty and insightful as you’d expect it to be: […]
April 27th, 2006 at 12:14 pm
[…] Moreso, 700 copies of The Insurgent won’t be distributed after the University of Oregon invoked self-censorship on those images. The original publication, the Oregon Commentator, freely published the Jesus cartoons on their web site showing that at least some University of Oregon students understand that free speech is free speech. If The Insurgent has printed the Danish cartoons they could hold their head up high that they proved a point, but thus far the only point they have proven was already made. […]
April 27th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
So lemme get this straight: a conservative student newspaper publishes the offensive censored images issued by its ideological opponent, an opponent that has demonstrated an unwillingness to reciprocate, and dawg says it’s still not good enough because they haven’t published child pornography yet?
I find I don’t miss academia.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
JESUS CARTOONS — PICTURE UPDATE
Allahpundit via Hotair provides us with a picture of one of The Insurgent’s Jesus cartoons, reported here. For a complete scan of the publication, go here (Thanks Oregon Commentator!).
Do you see anyone rioting yet? Perhaps burning flags? Stonin…
April 27th, 2006 at 2:51 pm
I went to college in the ’60s. It’s amazing that the Left is still pushing the same old tired line they were 45 years ago. When the ‘journalists’ at the Insurgent graduate, they’ll have jobs waiting for them at Air America. Oh, wait…
April 27th, 2006 at 3:08 pm
I guess we’ve cracked the Da Vinci Code…
It’s ‘Who would Jesus Do?’
Though I guess what bothers me the most is that all Western society is being blamed for the rather tame Mohammed Cartoons in spite of the willingness of the MSMs to refuse publication.
Yet this obscenity is virtually self parody because mocking Jesus is just so… pedestrian and common…
Ultimately a tiny paper in Denmark proved it’s original point. That the ‘Politically Correct’ are self-censoring and their misdirected hate is just another symptom of their self loathing.
April 27th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
I read the newspaper.
You guys are fuckin’ retards.
April 27th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
I, for one, would like to commend you for your literacy.
April 27th, 2006 at 7:51 pm
It’s always nice to find a liberal that can read something other than what’s printed on a tye dyed t-shirt. Someone mentioned 700 unsold copies….Any chance a white, Christian, male in Texas could get one?!
April 27th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
Do you pay incidental fees? I’m sure if you call the insurgent they’d be happy to send you one though.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:03 am
The Jesus Cartoons
As you may be aware, a small newspaper has printed some rather degrading
April 28th, 2006 at 4:43 am
[…] Lots of people emailed me about these obnoxious and appalling cartoons depicting Jesus - on the cross - with an erection, and him kissing (presumably Judas) with more erections. […]
April 28th, 2006 at 4:59 am
This is realy disgusting and I feel deep offended.
Edmund-Peter from Poland Warsaw
April 28th, 2006 at 6:24 am
Meh. Jesus has a boner. Jumpin’ Jesus on a pogo stick. Here’s a fundy with a thought bubble so you can see his hate-filled thoughts. [YAWN]
“Thou shalt have no other Gods before me” has a more subtle meaning - when you go to church, and there’s that big cross with the statue of Jesus nailed to it, and there’s another statue of Mary, and the altar in the middle with the fragment of the One True Cross, YOU DON’T PRAY TO ANY OF THOSE THINGS. You don’t kneel before the guy in the robes, and you don’t need absolution from the organization. All that sh|t’s between you and God.
So when I see a picture showing Jesus and Judas (I guess) as homos, it can’t bother me, because those aren’t Gods. God and Jesus are in my head and in my heart, and I can’t imagine anything that would be able to touch them there.
I’d be willing to wager that a substantial subset of the population of Islam feels the same way about Mohammed. “Oh, look, here’s a picture of The Prophet (peace be upon him) with a turban that’s a BOMB!!! OMFG!!!1!11! (NOT)”
April 28th, 2006 at 7:49 am
Isn’t it a kind of F-U to the folks that went ape-shit about the Mohammed cartoons? We can see cartoons slamming Jesus, but we GET OVER IT.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:02 am
“We are amazed that the Commentator stands behind us and supports us completely in our endeavor.”
From the editorial, that is the money quote showing the cluelessness of these irrelevant moonbats. In one sentance the illustrate their lack of understanding of Christianity and the First Amendment: forgiveness and free speech.
Beyond that, their little publication is boring, out-of-touch, and irrelevant. In THEIR eyes, that may be their biggest sin.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:43 am
Gettin’ even…
… in Jesus’ name:As you may be aware, a small newspaper has printed some rather degrading pictures of Jesus, presumably in order to provoke a response, and as a counterpoint to the Mohammed cartoons. Fair enough; as a classical liberal,
April 28th, 2006 at 11:27 am
This kind of foolishness is exactly why my kids will paying for their own college (just like Dear Old Dad). Because, there is no damn way that I’m going to shell out enough money to buy a summer home so they can come home with their heads filled with the “S” I’ve read in the “Insurgent”. Hell, being stupid should come a lot cheaper than 4 years worth of tuition.
April 28th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
We’ve had Jesus on the Cross dunked in a bucket of urine and placed in a tax-payers museum for viewing as an art piece. We’ve had the Blessed Mother covered in elephant dung and porno pictures and also placed in a tax funded museum for viewing as art - it stunk bad. There’s actually been a movie depicting Jesus Christ as gay. So there’s really nothing new here just silly little boys trying to be baddddd. lol
Boring.
April 28th, 2006 at 5:38 pm
That’s really dumb.
I’m a christian myself and am deeply offended by the liberal paper’s attempt to attack Christianity. There was no such need if the point was to “make a statement.” It’s as if someone who advocates against gun violence does so by shooting people.
The liberal papers defense that freedom of speech extends them the right to bash other religions is flawed. The amendement gives the freedom of speech as long as it doesn’t infringe on other’s rights namely the freedom of religion which is on the same document.
I can’t say that the Oregon Commentor made a wise decision printing the Muslim cartoons without expecting retaliation either.
April 28th, 2006 at 9:30 pm
WHAT A DUMMY I AM. I thought I was addressing an Insurgent column! I apologize. Nevertheless, I believe my original point about the Insurgent editors is correct: anti-Semitic cartoons that mock Jesus are so common it’s boring. I could add: If the Insurgent editors wish to create controversy and provoke a strong condemnation from Frohnmayer, they should draw pornographic cartoons about secular saints such as Martin Luther King. Isn’t that what college English teachers (mostly scam-artists) like to preach: subvert, undermine, destabilize middle-class sensibilities?
April 28th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
The amendement gives the freedom of speech as long as it doesn’t infringe on other’s rights namely the freedom of religion which is on the same document.
*sigh*
Repeat after me: Free exercise is not the same as being insulated from insult. You do not have a right not to be mocked. A badly drawn cartoon in an inconsequential student newspaper at a backwater University does not, in any way, inhibit your ability to exercise your religion as you see fit. As far as I can find in the text of the document there’s nothing about not being mocked in public. I guess the founders left out the “freedom from mocking by private parties” clause.
April 29th, 2006 at 11:48 am
In making any response at all to the “Jesus” cartoons reminds me of Pat Robertson saying “We demand respect!”
The world hates Jews and Christians because the world hates God. See Deut. 28:8-10.
John 15:18 - “If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.”
1 John 3:13 - “Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.”
If the God-hating world loves you, THEN you have a problem.
April 29th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
I was just wondering, how can this little paper be Marxist/Anarchist? Those two concepts are not compatible. Marxists kill anarchists when they have power.
I wonder if the “collective” has ever thought about that.
Probably not, since their idea of an intelligent sociopolitical statement is drawings of penises. Welcome back to the Marxism/Anarchism of the sixth grade toilet stall.
April 29th, 2006 at 11:00 pm
Joseph: “The amendement gives the freedom of speech as long as it doesn’t infringe on other’s rights namely the freedom of religion which is on the same document.”
Tim already covered this, but I think it’s a crucial point: how does the Insurgent printing anti-Christian material in any way impinge upon anyone’s freedom to practice their religion?
“I can’t say that the Oregon Commentor made a wise decision printing the Muslim cartoons without expecting retaliation either.”
This is interesting as well. What “retaliation” should we consider appropriate for printing a cartoon of Mohammed? From whom should we expect it?
May 1st, 2006 at 2:21 pm
[…] As a nice contrast, let’s compare Jaime’s bravery to those brave young souls at the Insurgent, a student newspaper at the University of Oregon, who bravely took a stand against the great Christian Menace. You see, the Oregon Commentator reprinted the Jyllands-Posten political cartoons that sparked so much violence a few months back, and the Insurgent, to make a point, published insulting cartoons about Christ*. The Insurgent apparently has no web presence, so the Commentator scanned and posted the issue for its online readers to see (Warning: The scanned Insurgent issue has images that are potentially very offensive.) […]
May 6th, 2006 at 11:09 pm
I think the majority of your commentators have got it right, the Left/supposedly Liberal espousal of anything offensive to Christianity is merely another symptom of the paucity of their arguments for the alternative anti-religion. I note that the Left has been conspicuous in NOT giving offence to Islam, perhaps another symptom of their desire for power and influence at any price. The point made by Jyllands-Posten has now been made, it is time to move the debate on and address the original point - that of political bias against national cultures and the assidious promotion of Middle Eastern culture in Europe and other “European” based nations.
May 9th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
[…] On one hand, it’s oftentimes inappropriate to push disturbing images in unsuspecting people’s faces. There are numerous people who know what an aborted fetus looks like, have an ironclad point of view one way or the other on the issue, and just want to go to their classes without having to see such images again. A very good friend of mine had relatives murdered in the holocaust and purposely avoids viewing images of the atrocities. He isn’t ignorant and he isn’t avoiding reality– he’s seen plenty of images and depictions of that particular genocide. But he does want to go about his day without an emotional load to bear. In a similar vein, a fellow Commentator staffer was bothered by the full image of the last Insurgent issue’s cover that I put up on the blog– for day or two when he visited the blog he pretty much had to view an image that offended him. […]
May 9th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
[…] On one hand, it’s oftentimes inappropriate to push disturbing images in unsuspecting people’s faces. There are numerous people who know what an aborted fetus looks like, have an ironclad point of view one way or the other on the issue, and just want to go to their classes without having to see such images again. A very good friend of mine had relatives murdered in the holocaust and purposely avoids viewing images of the atrocities. He isn’t ignorant and he isn’t avoiding reality– he’s seen plenty of images and depictions of that particular genocide. But he does want to go about his day without an emotional load to bear. In a similar vein, a fellow Commentator staffer was bothered by the full image of the last Insurgent issue’s cover that I put up on the blog– for day or two when he visited the blog he pretty much had to view an image that offended him. […]
May 12th, 2006 at 10:26 am
One wonders when the open season on Catholicism will end? There are those who will not cease to fill the world with vile images meant to provoke…..of Jesus in Urine (Serrano’s (sp?) Piss Christ), or of the Virgin Mary in Dung. Now we have Jesus with a boner for Judas.
Perhaps someone should seek an NEA grant or student activity funds to produce The Torah in Turd or Abraham sodomizing Isaac. Perhaps someone might fund a study to investigate sexual abuse by Rabbis and report it daily on the front page of every major american newspaper as often as posssible. It would be instructive to sit back and watch the fireworks.
May 12th, 2006 at 11:34 am
Catholic Season ends July 19, a bit of a long one this year, but I’m glad I got my doe tags. Protestant Season opens up July 25, and Neo-pagan season runs through the end of September.
May 13th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Yeah, the erection humor is just “sightly” juvenile and trying hard for that offensive sting. But then, it’s also pretty juvenile behavior to believe in this all powerful deity who makes the Universe in six days (he rests on the seventh because deities get tired, it’s exhausting work)…the penetration of christianity into society is so pervasive it definitely needs to be seriously mocked. And I’ll appreciate that mockery in whatever form I can find it…either clever humor or boner bathroom humor.
May 14th, 2006 at 6:04 am
It doesn’t seem to be Christianity as a whole that people are after though; the target always seems to be the Catholics in particular. The figure of Jesus on a cross is paartcularly Catholic; they’re the only ones who use that image in their churches or around their necks or whatever. Protestants just use a blank cross.
I do see what you mean about the pervasiveness of christianity in society but when only one group gets picked on all the time it gets a little scary. We know too well how the Muslims would respond and no one has the cujones to even consider an image or a screen character unflattering to Jews.
May 14th, 2006 at 6:32 pm
Hey, some of my best friends are Catholics.
Seriously, though, I think what makes religion an irresistible target for snark is that piety can often come across as sanctimony, and the more sacramental the sect the blurrier the lines get. What makes Catholicism an easier target than, say, Lutheranism is that it’s gaudier. The impulse to throw (figurative) rocks at people in fancy hats is as old as comedy itself, although the Insurgent do themselves no favors by dressing it up in a bunch of dialectical mumbo-jumbo.
(I think something similar is going on with the Motoons. The Jyllands-Posten cartoons derive a lot of their vitality and power precisely from the fact that we’re being told that this is a very serious matter that we shouldn’t be making fun of. No red-blooded satirist - or eighth-grader - can fail to respond to such stimuli.)
May 14th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
Olly, excellent point about the desire to throw rocks at people in funny hats…that’s what I meant to say but you said it much better. Thanks.
Margo is right though…Christianity is unfairly fair game while both Jews and Muslims are off limits.
May 17th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
[…] Most importantly, we posted a .pdf of the issue here. (Note: link contains picture of the Insurgent’s cover, which many find offensive.) […]
May 17th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY APALLING!!!! NEVER IN MY LIFE HAVE I EVER BEEN SO DISCGRACED. THIS NEWSPAPER NEEDS TO BE SHUT DOWN IMMEDIATELY. I FEEL SORRY FOR THE SOULS OF THESE PEOPLE. OH HOW I WOULD LOVE TO BE A LITTLE MOUSE IN A CORNER ON JUDGEMENT DAY. THIS NEWSPAPER NEEDS TO GO AND GO NOW!!!!!
THE PRESIDENT OF THIS COLLEGE NEEDS TO STAND UP AND BE A MAN. AND THE LITTLE CHILDREN WHO WROTE THESE ARTICLES NEED THEIR ASSES KICKED!!!!!
May 17th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
I’m not sure if the comment immediately above this one is for real or not. Anyone?
May 17th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
YES IT IS A REAL COMMENT. I JUST GOT FINISHED WATCHING FOX NEWS AND THE LITTLE JERK THAT RUNS THAT NEWSPAPER. HE LOOKED LIKE AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT. YOU CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT WE ARE IN THE END OF TIMES.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:18 pm
YES IT IS A REAL COMMENT. I JUST GOT FINISHED WATCHING FOX NEWS AND THE LITTLE JERK THAT RUNS THAT NEWSPAPER. HE LOOKED LIKE AN ABSOLUTE IDIOT. YOU CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT WE ARE IN THE END OF TIMES.
Attn: illiterate moron. The Commentator is not the Insurgent. The next time you say your prayers, include a mention of the caps lock key.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:25 pm
I’m still putting the odds at fifty-fifty that you’re Tyler.
This cruel parody of an outraged evangelical is beneath even you, Graf. Shameful.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:28 pm
TYPING IN ALL CAPS DOESN’T MAKE YOUR POINT ANY BETTER.
Mainly, it irritates the blog administrators. Please, stop it.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:29 pm
HEY MR. IAN……HEY YOU ILITERATE LITTLE LETTERED MORON. I HAPPEN TO TYPE 120 WPM AND KNOW WHAT CAP LOCK IS……..I ALSO KNOW WHO WAS ON THE O’REILLY FACTOR AND MR. GRAF LOOKED LIKE A LITTLE DWARF……WHAT’S THE MATTER HIT A BAD NOTE WITH YOU AND YOUR BOYFRIEND? THAT CAN BE THE ONLY POSSIBLE REASON FOR YOUR DEFENSE……..YOU COLLEGE KIDS NEED TO GET A LIFE. Oh, and by the way here is your small capped words. Probably easier for you to comprehend.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:33 pm
Um, even illiterates can understand a television program. But, hey, who gives a damn about facts when you are about to get beamed up by The Rapture TM
May 17th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
HEY MR. IAN……HEY YOU ILITERATE LITTLE LETTERED MORON. I HAPPEN TO TYPE 120 WPM AND KNOW WHAT CAP LOCK IS……..I ALSO KNOW WHO WAS ON THE O’REILLY FACTOR AND MR. GRAF LOOKED LIKE A LITTLE DWARF……WHAT’S THE MATTER HIT A BAD NOTE WITH YOU AND YOUR BOYFRIEND? THAT CAN BE THE ONLY POSSIBLE REASON FOR YOUR DEFENSE……..YOU COLLEGE KIDS NEED TO GET A LIFE. Oh, and by the way here is your small capped words. Probably easier for you to comprehend.
Yes thanks that helps quite a bit. I’m used to reading things written by literate people.
Much love,
Ian
May 17th, 2006 at 6:34 pm
It’s the initials that are the giveaway.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
Matthew 12:31. Therefore I say to you: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but the blasphemy of the Spirit shall not be forgiven.*
May 17th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
I think Ms. Garber is from Orofino, Idaho.
‘Nuff said.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:39 pm
Ms. Graber that is.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:42 pm
Hey Theresa:
Koran-Sura 5:17 “In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary”
May 17th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
Is it that hard to tell the difference between The Commentator (which is the magazine whose website you are reading right now) and The Insurgent (who’s rather dumb cartoons this magazine has covered as a news story)? If so, I’m going to have to have a serious talk with Ian.
And, M: Nope, South Carolina.
May 17th, 2006 at 6:49 pm
is that via IP address? i just googled her name….
May 17th, 2006 at 6:51 pm
Hey Theresa, you know what else?
“You’ll find, by the way, another man at this stage, and his preclears will shift the identities and borrow facsimilies.
“Like men, there’s what they call ‘The ChristGame’ and that game has been played and played and played and play…, honest to Pete, these cards are just so thin, they’ve been laid down amongst the coffee cups, and so forth, of the whole universe. You’ll find out thousands of years before the year 1 AD, Earth, you will have facsimilies and dolls made up like Christ. Fact one: a million years ago is occasionally rigged with Christ and the devil and an angel. ’s a fascinating thing, it’s an old game. Here on Earth, there was undoubtably a Christ. One of the reasons he was … he swept in so suddenly ah, and he, he would go forward so hard, is he had a good assist back of him in terms of an implant.”
– L. Ron Hubbard
May 17th, 2006 at 6:52 pm
Ah, let’s not do the IP-detail-posting thing. Let’s just bask in the full and frank exchange of insults and scriptures.
Like I always say: it’s the Internet! People are supposed to rant in ALL CAPS and go completely insane at the drop of a hat! This stuff is fun!
May 17th, 2006 at 6:53 pm
Also, Theresa:
O ye Twelve! and all Saints! profit by this important Key—that in all your trials, troubles, temptations, afflictions, bonds, imprisonments and death, see to it, that you do not betray heaven; that you do not betray Jesus Christ; that you do not betray the brethren; that you do not betray the revelations of God, whether in the Bible, Book of Mormon, or Doctrine and Covenants, or any other that ever was or ever will be given and revealed unto man in this world or that which is to come.
– Joseph Smith
May 17th, 2006 at 6:55 pm
M: Yes
Olly: Hadn’t planned on it, the state is enough detail.
Bryan: Will you be my sugar-daddy?
May 17th, 2006 at 9:44 pm
All this is such a big hipe. I’m so tired of all this nonsense about Jesus Christ and organized religion. I was brought up in a disfuctional Christian home and I know all about the insanity and neurosis of organized religion. I have an awareness of this unknown and mysterious energy behind all creation, but I also have an awareness of reality. Check out my writings at http://www.darksunproject.org Be sure to look under “Projects” as well.
May 17th, 2006 at 11:07 pm
Ok, ok. I have to come out and say it. I am religious. I am even Catholic. I have read the Insurgent and I find them trite. Look it up if you don’t understand. ’nuff said.
May 18th, 2006 at 12:07 am
Christianity? Organized? Apparently someone hasn’t had their daily medication.
May 18th, 2006 at 10:46 am
“I love you. You love me. We’re a happy familiy.”
~Barney The Purple Dinosaur 35:12
May 18th, 2006 at 7:14 pm
Thank you for proving to me that Evil really does exist, for all that support this manner of freedom. I had my doubts at times, but reading the intelligence levels shown here has shown me that there is a hell; this school and state is in the center. I pray you all will be delivered as I have become, and that a revelation of Heaven and Hell fall upon you. I guess I won’t see you there. God Bless.
May 18th, 2006 at 7:38 pm
If you were a true follower, you would be out evangelizing to people. That’s what we Christians are charged to do, not try to influence politics.
Do you know what we do when evil sets about? We pray and we continue evangelizing. That is what our charge is.
You, my friend, don’t know what hell is. Hell is much worse than the campus or the state. So don’t be condemning people when you yourself don’t even know what it looks like!
May 18th, 2006 at 7:50 pm
These arguments about freedom of speech are pointless when it comes to standing before the judgment seat of God. These blasphemers and those who support this nonsense will be judged; and their mockery of Jesus will not give them a place in heaven. Mark my words, when their flesh is burning and the devil is laughing they will cry out to the very man they mocked.
May 18th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
And people wonder why I gave up Christianity for lent.
May 18th, 2006 at 9:22 pm
They may just burn in hell. I just don’t think that it is the university’s decision to save their souls. As a matter of principle any speech must be protected. Just because I or you or anyone else finds it distasteful, uncomfortable, or even offensive doesn’t give us the right to stop the speech.
And to make another point. Being Catholic and pro-free speech is not contradictory.
May 19th, 2006 at 6:37 am
Gabrielle, if you noticed I didn’t say that they don’t have a right to their speech. I am referring to the spiritual aspect of the problem. A person who understands eternity knows that this life is nothing but the dash separating the years in which we live. Don’t misunderstand me speaking the truth as being offended. Offense is the last facet that I am looking at; for I am well aware that offenses will come. What is really important is that these people be as the disciple Paul and realize their sin; so that they can be saved before it is too late. I am more concerned about their souls then what they draw on a piece of paper.
May 19th, 2006 at 6:39 am
Okay kids….time for a little multi-cultural…let’s offend everyone.. humor:
1) How do you know for sure that Jesus was a Jew?
ANSWER: He thought his Mother was a virgin and His Mother thought He was God
2) Why were all those women (and 10% of the apostles) hanging around at the crucifixion?
ANSWER: They’d heard that Jesus was “really well-hung”
3) What’s the acronym I.N.R.I. at the top of the crucifix?
ANSWER: It stands for “I’m Nailed Right In”.
Any Good Muslim Jokes??
May 19th, 2006 at 6:41 am
Passion: So now you think it’s your job to use the comments section of our website to evangelize to a group of semi-literate anarchists? Might want to take up punching walls, might be more productive.
Margo: Those are pretty good, so far as non-PC jokes go.
May 19th, 2006 at 8:53 am
Wow, the lengths we have fallen..
May 19th, 2006 at 9:11 am
Well Master. Being that I’ve have drawn you out, Witness to them. For I already witness and pray for those whom I have been charged. Seek the souls that need to be saved not those whom already have salvation. The only thing for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. So thank you for your wisdom. And I am already praying with you. Sorry for my tactics. I wanted to know who the REAL followers are. Waist no more time with me for I am finished here.
May 19th, 2006 at 11:46 am
….and WASTE no time either !
May 19th, 2006 at 12:48 pm
I think it is really sick that this “paper” has to stoop so low to depict Christ in such a way. I now that Christianity is attacked continuously, but to go this far is really disgusting. You can bet if something bad was said or depicted about gays or blacks, heads would be rolling by now, but since it is a stab at Christians and Christ, the only ones who are offended and outraged of course are the Christians. Free speech is one thing - stupidity is another. And this junk is just plain sick and stupid!!
May 19th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
The sigh I am emitting is so long and laborious that it might well destroy the universe.
And you people should thank your sky friend that you don’t live in Iran where real oppression happens. If annoying speech is the worst thing you face in a given day, you’ve got nothing to complain about.
May 19th, 2006 at 1:24 pm
Copy that Tim. These coddled children are such hypocrites.
May 19th, 2006 at 2:35 pm
Even though these images and attitude behind them deeply offend me, I try to understand the reasoning behind things like this. In this case, I can find no logical explanation. Further reading tells me that the main reason this was done was to “piss people off”. Is there supposed to be an intellectual statement here? No. If there is, it was completely lost in the publisher’s own stupidity.
Religious beliefs aside, why do people think it is intelligent or wise to take a historical figure who taught nothing but love and good in an attempt to make this crappy world a better place, and mock him in such a degrading and debasing fashion? Why is it fun to piss people off? I don’t get it.
Stir the hornets nest because it’s fun to watch those hornets go nuts. Just be careful about being stung, as you’ll reap what you sow.
May 19th, 2006 at 3:53 pm
Maybe if the insurgent had a functional website you could address those comments to them.
May 19th, 2006 at 5:12 pm
I think all students at the University of Oregon be required to have a homosexual relationship before they can graduate. The Gay/Lesbian/Transgender community can give free lessons on how to do it! Then after the students do whatever it is that they do, they should publish something about the experience. We need to identify more homosexuals among us and have more sympathy for what they have to go through!
May 19th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
I propose a new OC drinking game. Every time someone mentions hypocrites we all drink!
Bottoms Up!
May 19th, 2006 at 8:44 pm
My liver won’t be able to take the pain.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:18 am
Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. if you christians can’t take the heat jump into the same bowl with the islamics that can’t either. i have a freind that spent a year on cyprus and have a diverse group of friends she meet there. one of her friends was an islamic woman who was surprised to realize she had more in common with george bush and his buddies then she had with lisa, my friend. at the bottom of the barrel all fundies are the same, even when they call them selves evangelical. that want women to take their place along side their man, they want kids bottoms beat (some of these good christians have been know to beat those bottoms so bad the kids died of broken blood vessels) and defende their religion agaisnt all comers ( sorry jesus no pun intended) real AND imagined. they want religious freedom for themselves only - as we say Hitler loved free speech, he had it. Bush and his buddies are NOT Christians as i know from reading the Bible. Bush and his buddies are EXACTLY what Jesus was protesting. Please Neo-Christian look into the mirror (those islamics you hate so much) and grow up before you accomplish your mission of bringing Armageddon here from fiction to reality…Bush is already trying to burn up the earth with global warming.
May 20th, 2006 at 1:16 am
I was directed here by Bill Donohue’s site, which is better than The Onion. Cartoons are very funny. But ehh wtf is this “Oregon Commentator”? I’m reading this board, and I checked some of the issues in the archive and it doesn’t read like a “Conservative Journal of Opinion.” Compared to The National Review this paper reads like something Marat wrote. And The Insurgent… I mean holy shit I voted for the gay socialist dave macreynolds for president in 2000 yet I don’t even feel qualified to call myself a lefty compared to those guys. Nice job all around.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:38 am
In Eugene we’re “conservative” on the whole we’re more libertarian/drunk.
May 20th, 2006 at 10:46 am
Key emphasis on “Drunk”.
May 20th, 2006 at 12:45 pm
You’re right Joe….ALL fundies are the same….. they want the world to be run THEIR WAY ! But you, like most people in the western world today, refuse to mention Jews by name.
My mother grew up in an Orthodox Jewish family. I’ve never met my maternal grandparents because my Mother “ran off” and married a reform Jew. My Mother was dead to them for loving and marrying a fellow Jew.
The Orthodox and Catholics hold almost all the same beliefs…Life is sacred from conception through natural death; no contraception / no abortion; no sex outside of marriage; zero tolerance for homosexuality, etc….but no one dares to utter a word.
WHY ??
In New York City the Gay Temple is not allowed to march in the Israel Day Parade but the newspapers refuse to write about it. The banning of Gay Irish groups from the St.Patricks Day Parade is front page new each year.
FREE SPEECH FOR ALL !!!!
May 20th, 2006 at 3:57 pm
Jesus said, “Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.” Luke 23:34
May 20th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
I was directed here by Bill Donohue’s site, which is better than The Onion. Cartoons are very funny. But ehh wtf is this “Oregon Commentator”? I’m reading this board, and I checked some of the issues in the archive and it doesn’t read like a “Conservative Journal of Opinion.” Compared to The National Review this paper reads like something Marat wrote. And The Insurgent… I mean holy shit I voted for the gay socialist dave macreynolds for president in 2000 yet I don’t even feel qualified to call myself a lefty compared to those guys. Nice job all around.
We’re pretty much alcoholics who hate people telling us what to do or what to spend our money on. We also support the original spirit of the U.S. Constitution, which tends to put us at odds with most other political entities.
May 20th, 2006 at 6:24 pm
I’m not sure if it was intended as a compliment, but I think that’s the nicest thing anyone’s said about us in a while. Although we’re closer politically to NR than we are to the Insurgent, that’s for sure.
Speaking of which, I’ve been going back and catching up on some of the initial reaction to Donohue’s letter. As you might expect, there’s some “defiling Jesus” rhetoric from NRO’s Phi Beta Cons. However, I’m happy to report that John J. Miller gets it absolutely right; see also here for an oblique shout-out.
May 20th, 2006 at 7:59 pm
It seems rather ironic that the Christophobics are allowed to get away with this trash. Yet, it would NEVER be tolerated if the image were of a black, a Jew, or a Muslim. What inconsistent hypocrisy. What is going on in the name of higher education?!
May 20th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Drink!
May 20th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
I can’t even see straight anymore.
May 20th, 2006 at 10:30 pm
Just remember, the puke goes in the back alley.
May 21st, 2006 at 12:11 am
[…] Aroused Jesus just can’t get no love. We’ve had Bill Donohue, aghast at his improbable bright red erection; we’ve had Bill O’Reilly go so far as to call for Frohnmayer’s head over the matter. Now we have an Action Alert! from - it was only a matter of time, really - the American Family Association. […]
May 21st, 2006 at 4:53 am
Hebrews 10:31
It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:43 am
I couldn’t agree more, Richard.
Le Master: Or on the table, depending at which bar one happens to be.
May 21st, 2006 at 10:58 am
Just because we have “free speech” to print whatever we want, doesn’t make it right!
May 21st, 2006 at 6:15 pm
Misty: That’s correct. It doesn’t mean that what they did was right.
The problem comes in that people want to violate US Case Law in order to shut down a publication that is legally protected. US v. Miller (decency laws), Rosenberger v. Rector, Southworth v. Board of Regents, all have essentially ruled on the side of publications like the Insurgent.
That’s why the Commentator is defending the Insurgent, because the case law that is there applied to them 2 years ago when they themselves were in the limelight against the “Cokehead” Quiroz Goon Squad.
May 21st, 2006 at 7:44 pm
” ‘ Vengence is Mine,’ says the Lord, ‘I will repay.’ ” Quite frankly, I feel sorry for those who mock God. I wouldn’t want to be on the receiving end of His justice! I am praying for them, that they will seek the Lord they have so readily mocked. Unless He shows them mercy (as He did from the cross, “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do”), they will surely suffer the consequences for their actions. Galatians 6:7 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.”
May 21st, 2006 at 7:53 pm
I do not pretend to know it all, but this is what I do know:
There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death.
The way of the wicked is like darkness; they do not know what makes them stumble.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteiousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be know of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man — and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was done. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
It is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.
I truly feel sorry for those who think Christianity is a joke. God has set before us life and death and is begging us to choose life, but he will not make you, it’s a choice, free will.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:37 pm
Bless your heart, dear Audra,
Unsurpassed in our nation’s history
the injustices allowed in our generation–
legal challenges to the faith of our founders,
debasement of Christ in “higher” learning.
Fools are they who study genesis as evolution–
from protein of “organic soup” man came to be–
parasites of earth, the host of which they feed
orbiting without purpose in a cosmic sea.
Every eye will see His Glorified Presence;
every knee will bow before His Majesty.
In awe of the Savior at the inevitable hour,
too late to repent at judgment of humanity.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:47 pm
I get the whole thing about free speech and I am okay with that. But what I don’t agree with is that the Insurgent is funded with student dues. I would hate to think (if I were a student there) that I funded a publication that I disagree with and continually find offensive.
May 21st, 2006 at 8:48 pm
Hi-
Welcome all the the OREGON COMMENTATOR blog.
NOT the insurgent’s.
Can someone make a website in their name and then you can all post your intentions there? I guarantee that the collective doesn’t read this website! Please, if you want to be effective track them down. I know you can’t post on their site, but that’s not an excuse to post evangelism here!
May 21st, 2006 at 8:51 pm
Paul-
I’m appalled that my tax dollars went to murder the following people on the following dates:
Died February 28, 1993 in initial BATF assault on Mount Carmel
Winston Blake 28 black British
Peter Gent 24 white Australian
Peter Hipsman 28 white American
Perry Jones 64 white American
Michael Schroeder 29 white American
Jaydean Wendell 34 Hawaiian American
Died April 19, 1993 burnt or shot to death during FBI assault
Katherine Andrade 24 white American
Chanel Andrade 1 white American
Jennifer Andrade 19 white American
George Bennett 35 black British
Susan Benta 31 black British
Mary Jean Borst 49 white American
Pablo Cohen 38 white Israeli
Abedowalo Davies 30 black British
Shari Doyle 18 white American
Beverly Elliot 30 black British
Evette Fagan 32 black British
Doris Fagan 51 black British
Lisa Marie Farris 24 white American
Raymond Friesen 76 white Canadian
Sandra Hardial 27 black British
Zilla Henry 55 black British
Vanessa Henry 19 black British
Phillip Henry 22 black British
Paulina Henry 24 black British
Stephen Henry 26 black British
Diana Henry 28 black British
Novellette Hipsman 36 black Canadian
Floyd Houtman 61 black American
Sherri Jewell 43 Asian American
David M. Jones 38 white American
David Koresh 33 white American
Rachel Koresh 24 white American
Cyrus Koresh 8 white American
Star Koresh 6 white American
Bobbie Lane Koresh 2 white American
Jeffery Little 32 white American
Nicole Gent Little and unborn child 24 white Australian
Dayland Gent 3 white American
Page Gent 1 white American
Livingston Malcolm 26 black British
Diane Martin 41 black British
Wayne Martin, Sr. 42 black American
Lisa Martin 13 black American
Sheila Martin, Jr. 15 black American
Anita Martin 18 black American
Wayne Martin, Jr. 20 black American
Julliete Martinez 30 Mexican American
Crystal Martinez 3 Mexican American
Isaiah Martinez 4 Mexican American
Joseph Martinez 8 Mexican American
Abigail Martinez 11 Mexican American
Audrey Martinez 13 Mexican American
John-Mark McBean 27 black British
Bernadette Monbelly 31 black British
Rosemary Morrison 29 black British
Melissa Morrison 6 black British
Sonia Murray 29 black American
Theresa Nobrega 48 black British
James Riddle 32 white American
Rebecca Saipaia 24 Asian British
Steve Schneider 43 white American
Judy Schneider 41 white American
Mayanah Schneider 2 white American
Clifford Sellors 33 white British
Scott Kojiro Sonobe 35 Asian American
Floracita Sonobe 34 Philipino
Gregory Summers 28 white American
Aisha Gyrfas Summers and unborn child 17 white Australian
Startle Summers 1 white American
Lorraine Sylvia 40 white American
Rachel Sylvia 12 white American
Hollywood Sylvia 1 white American
Michelle Jones Thibodeau 18 white American
Serenity Jones 4 white American
Chica Jones 2 white American
Little One Jones 2 white American
Neal Vaega 38 Asian New Zealander
Margarida Vaega 47 Asian New Zealander
Mark H. Wendell 40 Asian American
May 21st, 2006 at 9:19 pm
I didn’t think this thread could possibly make any less sense than it has been doing recently. But oh, how wrong I was.
(Besides, Andy, wouldn’t you have been, like, ten years old in 1993? I think your conscience can be pretty clear as far as Waco is concerned.)
Meanwhile, I would like to take this opportunity to ask that our more religious visitors follow the example set above by Bettye, and provide their comments in verse.
May 21st, 2006 at 9:41 pm
As a mother of a UO student, an alum, a former dope-smokin hippie duck, a preacher’s daughter and a world traveler, I can say with authority that nobody learns compassion by having the same bad thing done to them that they did to the other. Bad children learn respect by seeing it modeled, constantly and consistently, in their peers, in their community. The childish behavior of cartoons mocking religious beliefs may be free speech, but so is farting, belching and saying fuck. What purpose does it serve in these times of violence? We all used to hit each other when we were mad, but then we grew up. Hey?
May 21st, 2006 at 9:45 pm
legal challenges to the faith of our founders,
You know, that’s not all that accurate a statement really. Jefferson was, by most accounts, a Unitarian (although many atheists have cherry-picked some choice quotations). Franklin was basically a Deist. Mason was an Episcopal, but worked for the separation of Chuch and State.
To say that all of the founders were Christian is, frankly, wrong.
May 22nd, 2006 at 12:11 am
Sorry I was pissed there for a moment. The whining is deafening.
May 22nd, 2006 at 7:08 am
I didn’t realize freedom of speech was a one way street. This all started because of “freedom of speech”. The question originally was “should someone be able to desecrate and smear another’s beliefs all in the name of freedom?” If one belief can be ridiculed, then all should be open to ridicule. If some, for political correctness, need to remain untouched, then all should remain untouched. I find it rather ironic that a website pushing for freedom of speech is asking those who choose to evangelize on this website to go to another, which, in case you missed it, is hindering our “freedom of speech”.
You’re free to choose. You’re not free not to choose, and you’re not free to choose the consequences of your choice.
May 22nd, 2006 at 7:27 am
Do I need to prepare another damn lecture on the difference between public and private spaces?
Are you daft? Just FYI, Sho and I pay for the website out of pocket, so it is not in any way publically funded. Being a private enterprise, posting here is roughly equivalent to sitting in my livingroom. I take that you’d want to toss rude houseguests out of your livingroom, and it’s your house, you do what you want. That’s the difference between a public and a private forum. The OC website is, in a technical sense, a private space.
That said, as obnoxious as I personally find the evangelizing, you know, go ahead (although please honor Olly’s request and post in verse). I’m not going to delete any of it, I’m not going to turn comments off, I’m not going to ban anybody, go ahead tell me about your omnipotent sky friend all you want. Sho and I are actually paying real cash money to allow you to continue doing that here. Not a lot of money, granted, but still.
“Hindering your ‘freedom of speech’”? Please, if this were a public forum and I were busy tearing down your pro-Jesus signage, you’d have a point. As this is a private forum and all we’ve done is suggest that, you know, perhaps, you might want to direct your ire at the folks who dreamed up the cartoons in the first place, I’d say we’re pretty goddamn gracious hosts.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:06 am
No, I’m not daft. Human to a fault, but not daft. My apologies for taking it too far. Yes, you are a gracious host, and yes I should be directing all comments to the toonist. I’m getting sick of freedom infringement, and in my disgust of his whole issue have infringed your freedoms. It’s a tough balance to keep my freedoms without violating others under the same laws. I want mine, and you have a right to yours as well. Sorry.
May 22nd, 2006 at 9:15 am
*shrug*
Like I said, post what you want, that’s why we have comments.
May 23rd, 2006 at 12:41 am
Interesting that when morality is at issue, we have educators supporting the flaunting of that morality and “students” testing the issue. Well, it is your right as it is my right to not hire any student from the U of O. I will, of course, pass this on with the hope that other employers will follow suit.
It’s just my small way of protesting your actions. Best of luck with your experiment.
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:28 am
Because that, like, makes total sense.
May 23rd, 2006 at 10:16 am
has always been challenged. Information and ideas, illustrations and commentary, are marks of a free society. Those who would enchain or enslave always limit, deter, badger, or attempt to control through the pocketbook those they disagree with. I salute the U of O student paper for its courage to print the “Jesus” cartoons. It is strange, to me, when Christians claim that Jesus was “true god and true man” and then attempt to lessen the “true man” by claiming that he was either asexual (quite an unnatural act, similar to such absurdities as chastity and celibacy), or without any sexual interests that mark all living creatures. As a theologian, I am neither offended or repulsed by the cartoons, but seen in them the plethora of human possibilities and the ultimate concept of god-man made flesh. But then, I am not from Poland and my bible is not censored.
May 23rd, 2006 at 5:38 pm
You are a Hypocrite if you believe that these cartoons of Christ are a good thing. Was the picture of Mohamed with a bomb on his head in a Christian publication? The author of the Jesus cartoons says that he was trying to teach westerners a lesson. Is it right to do evil to the innocent in order to get them to sympathize with others. The author admits that what was done to the Muslim faith was very wrong, (which I agree). Then he goes and does the same to the Christain faith. Many of you cheer him like he is some kind of hero. Only hypocrites think that way. Would you cheer a rape, a murder, molestation, or a beating of a persons loved one in order to help them sympathize with another persons feelings? Again it was not a Christain organization that printed the Mohamed cartoons. If you call Christians hypocrites, maybe you should look in a mirror, so you can have a better view of what a hypocrite looks like. Feel free to drink to the word hypocrite.
May 23rd, 2006 at 6:35 pm
Learn to read.
Also: DRINK!
May 23rd, 2006 at 7:51 pm
I am still shell-shocked that my little grievance started a huge movement garnering national attention from the likes of Bill O’Reilly and the loveable Bill Donahue.
I can’t say I stand behind every argument the newly formed coalition “Students of Faith” makes in their new grievance, as I believe that their arguments are misintrepreting legal issues and cases, and also suffering logically (I have suffered personally from this conviction), but I do strongly support their intentions and they have my sympathies. The Insurgent gets off from offending and insulting others, and the real shame is that they’re March issue did nothing to add to discourse on the problems of Christianity. There is nothing wrong with debating the perceived ills Christianity has had on society, but they’re ignorant, immature and arrogant rant only served to make people mad.
Something I have noticed which has reassured me of the sanity and good-will of this university is that virtually no one has come out and defended the content of the Insurgent. Some have defended they’re rights to publish, but I have not encountered anyone who has actually defended they’re content. The approach they used to make their points is indefensible and no rational or good-natured person could get behind it.
May 23rd, 2006 at 9:47 pm
Many of you cheer him like he is some kind of hero. Only hypocrites think that way. Would you cheer a rape, a murder, molestation, or a beating of a persons loved one in order to help them sympathize with another persons feelings?
Did you just compare a depiction of Jesus to rape?
*Sigh*
May 23rd, 2006 at 9:55 pm
Ian,
All sins are equally bad???
May 23rd, 2006 at 10:42 pm
Bigotry is always bigotry. The Insurgent is just another source of the growing anti-Christian movement in the U.S. that stoops to the lowest levels of human-kind to hurt people and cause them pain. Read my take
http://livebreathanddie.wordpress.com/
May 23rd, 2006 at 10:51 pm
Andy, rape is a crime… with a victim. For anyone to claim that the effects of another persons/magazines speech is comparable to the effects of sexual assault is clearly ludicrous. Actually its almost funny… imagine reading this blog if every idiots opinion felt like rape.
May 23rd, 2006 at 10:56 pm
Zach: The old saying “I don’t like what you have to say, but I will damn well defend your right to say it” comes to mind. :)
May 23rd, 2006 at 11:58 pm
Voltaire… I agree with it, I don’t like the Insurgent, but I acknowledge their right to speak and support that right…
But, with incidental fees, the principle is complicated…
“Whereas I may disagree with what you say, I will pay for your right to say it???”
May 24th, 2006 at 12:12 am
Yeah, that argument is getting mighty stale for me. I don’t get to eat the pizza that the Korean Students Association gets to eat when they have their meetings (hypothetically… be cool) but I pay for it, but you don’t see me calling for their defunding. Look, as fee-paying students, we pay for the opportunity to have print outlets for public expression , we are not paying for the right to like everything that comes out of those magazines. I write for the Commentator, and I don’t like everything we print! But I’m doing something about it. I am involving myself, rolling up my sleeves and contributing. Using the opportunity I help pay for, not bitching about how much it sucks. So maybe The Voice wants to give up, and the Talibs can use it to promote virtue and bible study and whatnot. Might even boost circulation.
May 24th, 2006 at 12:15 am
Ted - I was trying to grasp farmers viewpoint, but alas to no effect.
May 24th, 2006 at 12:43 am
Actually, there is one wrinkle. I don’t want to pick on the KSA: I’m European, kind of, so I’ll use the European Student Association. Under viewpoint neutrality, the European Student Association cannot be defunded because PFC one year decides they’re a bunch of dirty Europeans who don’t deserve funding. They can have their funding cut if they’re just spending their money on pizza instead of organizing European Night or some pointless thing. In practice, this rule is interpreted rather loosely and the UO has an awful lot of pizza-munching, stipend-paying groups. But I, for one, would like to see it applied more strictly, and have the amount of pizza in the ASUO be drastically trimmed.
(NB: pizza is not served at Commentator meetings. In this way, and in absolutely no others, the Commentator is an ascetic among student groups.)
May 24th, 2006 at 9:45 am
I dunno, nobody on staff gets paid either. I’m still paying for beer you made me drink, Ruff!
May 24th, 2006 at 4:17 pm
I can’t decide if this is a really good time or a really bad time to point out the fact that the Collective gets a stipend while the Commentator doesn’t (don’t know about the Voice). Maybe mandating no stipends for any campus publication would improve the quality of content. Is that rule change possible since it affects all publications equally?
May 24th, 2006 at 5:11 pm
Good point, also since half of the insurgent writers aren’t students. Good call Niedermeyer
May 24th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Ian and Niedermeyer, yes i do compare the attack on Christ and Christaianity to rape. I love no one more than Jesus Christ. You cannot understand my feelings, because you are not me. If you loved Christ as I do you would feel the same way. And yes I know what its like to be raped. I am not insulted by your comment I am just clarifying my position. If it was somone you loved dearly in those cartoons I hope that you would be furious, too.
May 24th, 2006 at 8:57 pm
If someone I dearly loved had been charicatured and printed as having a boner while on a cross, I certainly wouldn’t be happy. But I also wouldn’t think it was the same as them having been physically raped.
A person being raped is worse than a depiction of a person - or deity - being raped.
May 24th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
I’d put rape right below life-scarring torture but better than serious physical assault. I’d put offensive picture right below being spit on, but better than the finger.
May 24th, 2006 at 9:33 pm
I’d put an offensive picture in my cubicle just to bother people.
May 25th, 2006 at 10:36 am
Ian you missed my point. The author of the cartoons was trying to make a point, but did the exact same thing that he was condemning. Making him and all those who cheer him hypocrites. That is my point, not that rape is the same thing. But as for as for rape or blasphemy goes I would hate to stand before God for either issue.
P.S. drink to hypocrite
May 25th, 2006 at 10:48 am
Farmer - Fair enough. I agree that pointing out the intolerance of a group while being intolerant towards them is a bit, er, absurd.
May 26th, 2006 at 9:10 am
I read this somewhere and couldn’t agree more: “I wonder what would happen if this same newspaper ran similar cartoons of
civil rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King? Can you imagine the uproar
there would be? Or what if they ran cartoons depicting Mohammed as a
homosexual? Those responsible would be in fear for their very lives. Or
what about if they ran cartoons that mocked and demeaned people who choose
to be gay. There would be marches and protests by
every pro-homosexual group that exists. The fact is, nobody would dare to
publish these types of disgusting representations of ANYONE other than Jesus
or Christians, since the public outcry would be deafening. People would be
fired, students expelled, and millions would be spent to appease those who
were offended.”
The people that write such disgust are weak pathetic excuses for human beings looking for easy targets, hiding under the guise of free speech. Makes one wonder what they are they are getting taught in the schools/universities they attend.
And this will be the future of our country? The futures looking quite bleak indeed.
May 26th, 2006 at 9:36 am
Well unless you want to do something about the direction our country is going in, Cheryl, I suggest you stop stealing oxygen.
May 26th, 2006 at 9:42 am
Andy, How do you know that I am not?
I appreciate your wit though.
May 26th, 2006 at 9:54 am
People would be
fired, students expelled, and millions would be spent to appease those who
were offended.”
If you could actually, you know, read, you’d know that this is a legal impossibility. Further, if you read our blog archives you will see the coverage from last year of when they tried to do precisely that to the Oregon Commentator for precisely those reasons. Of course, I’ve stopped expecting anything akin to reading comprehension or rational thinking ability from you people, so I’m not holding my breath.
May 26th, 2006 at 9:54 am
Timothy cute idea, but possibly not wise. We had a guy at work with similar ideas. Empahasis on the word had. Unless you want to start a home business, I would reconsider such ideas. Just friendly advice.
Heres an interesting conscept to ponder (we can’t tolerate intolerance).
May 26th, 2006 at 10:06 am
In answer to Timothy:
my last entry applies to you as well.
May 26th, 2006 at 10:52 am
To to the PhD, no one responded to you, mostly because most people know that University theologians have very little conceipt of the truth of the bible. Even the paper that printed the cartoons and the artist new they were offensive. I am proud to say my sixth grade son understands the bible more than most university PhD’s do. Mostly because he accepts the Christ of the bible and does not create one that fits his own mold and personal ideas. I hate to be insultive, but if you can’t accept the Christ of the bible don’t call yourself a theologian. Try reading your uncensored english bible you don’t need a degree to understand it. Or maybe your smarter than God and you can write your own bible.
Thank you to the producers of this website, I appreciate the open forum. Its almost therapeutic.
Hey i didn’t use the word hypocrite, oops drink
May 26th, 2006 at 11:16 am
Yes farmer,
rational thinking abilities at McDonald’s might be a vice - but in the real world of salaried jobs it’s kind of a plus.
May 26th, 2006 at 12:11 pm
*shakes head*
May 26th, 2006 at 12:52 pm
Farmer,
My sixth grade son can write English much better than you can and God didn’t write the Bible either.
May 26th, 2006 at 1:52 pm
Andy I wasn’t trying to insult you or your job at McDonalds it was friendly advice. And I never claimed to be an English scholar. But you can argue the last fact with the Apostle Paul he is much more than a scholar than I am; I’m just a dumb Firefighter.
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Ps I’m willing to bet you dont have a sixth grade son.
May 26th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
*sigh*
May 26th, 2006 at 2:36 pm
I am tired, grouchy and I don’t feel good today so I apologize if I have insulted anyone.
May 26th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
Oh, no, actually, you’re quite polite.
I’m just sick to death of this topic.
May 27th, 2006 at 12:29 pm
“Try reading your uncensored english bible you don’t need a degree to understand it. Or maybe your smarter than God and you can write your own bible.”
Let me guess… you are referring to your “uncensored” King James Version bible. The one God wrote in beautiful english prose by way of six british committees in the 1600’s. Were these scholars (the very theologians you say have no concept of the “truth of the Bible”) able to somehow infallibly translate the exact word of God? What about the Gospels of Thomas, Judas and others which have been discarded from the canon for political reasons? Were those simply masquerading as the word of God? What about the Dead Sea Scrolls?
Here is my point: for anyone to claim that they understand “the truth” of a document which has been altered, edited, enhanced, translated and reworked countless times since its creation a hundred years after the deaths of its putative authors is not trying hard enough. That is a political text you have your hands on, farmer, and the only reason you say your six year old son “understands” it better than a PHd is because its political utility is at its highest when the text is not understood for what it is.
May 27th, 2006 at 1:54 pm
No, I was not referring to the King James Version. We have much more modern translations, translated from original the manuscripts.
From the first century on, Christians recognized 20 books as indisputably reliable and authoritative, including the four gospels, Acts, 13 letters of Paul, 1 Peter and 1 John. We have more than 5000 original language manuscripts containing part or all of the New Testament from the beginning of second century on, with few substantial variations. There’s evidence that the four gospels were distributed as a book as early as 125 AD, with more complete lists as early as 140 AD.
As far as the 2 Gnostic gospels you refer to.
Scholars who study these books date them much later than the Christian gospels, 250-350 AD, with the teachings they represent dating no earlier than the mid 100s to early 200s when they first began to infiltrate Christian groups. In other words, were rejected by the Christian Church before those gospels were even written.
Although these gospels would make for a great conspiracy movie
May 27th, 2006 at 5:16 pm
Sure. The scholars who translated the King James Version were sustained throughout that process by direct inspiration from God. Come on, even I know that.
May 27th, 2006 at 6:14 pm
It would have been nice if Judas changed his and wrote a gospel, but it contradicts earlier scripture. Instead we see he betrayed Jesus to the high priests for 30 pieces of silver and went and hung himself.
Read how Judas died in Matthew 27 and Paul agrees about his death in Acts 1:18-19. They both talked of it as if it were common knowledge. Scripture authenticates itself by prophecy you can read Zechariah 11:12-13.
Just like the high priests that paid for the betrayal of Christ. Societies have been trying to destroy Christianity since its inception. The fact that false gospels were written is no surprise. The fact that they were so quickly embraced by those who despise Christianity is not a shock either.
May 27th, 2006 at 9:06 pm
Whoa…I think I stepped into a theological discussion.
Anyone got stain remover?
May 29th, 2006 at 10:08 am
Miles, theological discussions is not something to be afraid of. 85 % of the American population believes there is a God. If most of us believe in that truth then most of us should be willing to discuss it. It is my understanding that the stain you have was not caused by theology, but the good news is it can be removed by it.
Isaiah 1:18
18 “Come now, let us reason together,”
says the LORD.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.
May 29th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
I think what Miles means is more along the lines of “A Theological discussion? On a satire journal’s website? Can we just not go there”.
May 29th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Frankly, the one true religion is Flying Spagetti Monsterism. I have been touched by his noodly appendage, and that is the only path to salvation.
May 29th, 2006 at 3:39 pm
fair enough i will move on.
June 9th, 2006 at 11:44 am
From what I understand, this paper is supported by the University, financially and otherwise.
Oregon just lost the support of another alumus.
June 15th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
I respect the right of free speech that our fathers had the foresight to guarantee us in our constitution. To that end, I also respect the right of those who administer the Commentator. What I think has happened here is that you are no longer being true to the intention of the paper or any public forum–to promote the exchange of ideas, perhaps leading to the enhancement of human relations. Instead you are creating a mockery of free speech.
I read most of what was in here, and I couldn’t help but feel sorry, not only for the lack of productive exchange, but for the mean-spirited comments (I try not to judge the individual himself). Let’s not be hurtful, but have respect for one another. What will we remember as our biggest contribution to mankind? Does anyone think that they are here on earth just to take up space, then die (LIABATYDSFI)? Let’s start with our opinions on the war; let’s have an open discussion about the pros and cons of legalizing marijuana. How about gaming tips or favorite hunting spots? We could even have productive intercourse about organized religion. What do you say?
June 16th, 2006 at 8:40 am
Will somebody please think about the children? (WERTYILKJHGFDS)
June 19th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
“We could even have productive intercourse about organized religion. What do you say?”
I swear I overheard that one at Taylors once…