I talked to my father about this subject. He brought up a good point. He is recently retired from the construction business in central Oregon. He has seen an influx of immigrant workers, primarily working illegally (i.e. no taxes), in the construction business. His feeling was that they were keeping wages unreasonably low because they were willing to work for less and not be covered by the usual SAFE and social security, etc. Not all jobs taken by immigrants are undesirable to the established population. Construction jobs are considered some of the best if you are willing to take the physical abuse of heavy labor and many are.

When I graduate, the 350z will have a little test drive through albany..

AJB: Why would I cry after getting a speeding ticket? I generally just get mad and drive faster, and renew my personal commitment to a more sensible speed policy. It’s been slow in coming but I like where the country is headed on highway speed. Meanwhile, I’ll do what I have to do to get where I need to go as fast as possible while minimizing my getting caught. Just like illegal immigrants.

Who may or may not have been named Bret and may or may not have been as hot as Rebecca Newell.

I understand the legal distinction, thanks so much.
It’s the common sense of such a comparison, I question.

If you don’t like the law, organize some people, get a bill written, and change the law.
But in the meantime, don’t cry when you get a speeding ticket, and don’t expect me to have a lot of sympathy for some Canadian tree farmer that gets deported back to Winnipeg.

-ajb

Also, after a good intellectual thrashing, cut some slack to the token conservative ODE columnist — the role has been filled by some unbelievably talented drinkers and thinkers, who will remain nameless.

Seriously, those of you who, with a straight face, believe that people sneak over the border for welfare: Have you ever met an illegal immigrant? Have you ever met a person living on welfare? I’ve met both, and I’ve found the former to be Mexican and highly motivated, and the latter to be American-born and highly (cough) lazy. The former didn’t have much, but was willing to do all he could to get more. The latter, too, didn’t have much, yet didn’t seem to care if he ever got more, unless it came without effort on his part.

There are plenty of reasons to criticize welfare, and there are bona fide drains on society. But people who brave the U.S.-Mexico border time and time again are not the sort likely to become such drains. Plenty of people born here are.

You’re comparing people who are commiting a federal misdemeanor(and if a repeat offender, a felony) with someone who jaywalks? Seriously?

Sure, that can be serious. Both are malum prohibitum, i.e., bad because they are illegal. Whereas rape or murder are malum in se — bad in and of themselves. Certain things are illegal just because we say so. Others enjoy a near-universal agreement upon their inherent evilness.

Like a cloud pattern, this distinction is easy enough to see once someone points it out, but it’s tripping you up. Who cares whether an offense is a municipal violation or a federal misdemeanor (oooh!) if it’s only bad ’cause somebody said so? I, being a bit of federalist, will respect the municipality ahead of Congress, if we’re going that way.

Likewise, Kirsten got tripped up when she compared illegal immigration to murder. The fact that there is an ongoing debate on the propriety of illegal immigration should make clear that, unlike murder, we don’t have any kind of consensus on its inherent wrongness. It’s only bad because it’s illegal. Which is a stupid reason to frown on something.

I broke the speed limit for 83 consecutive minutes on I-5 this evening, at times by more than 20 miles per hour. And here I sit, not murdering anyone. But OH GOD, I broke the law! Who’s to say I won’t sign up for welfare next???

No, no, no!

People who jaywalk should be made to stand on street corners with giant sandwich-boards that read “I’m an idiot who can’t push a walk button” on the front and “Cross on the green, Not in between” on the back.

Alternately, we could just eliminate the hit and run laws for cars that strike pedestrians and let natural selection take over.

-ajb

You’re comparing people who are commiting a federal misdemeanor(and if a repeat offender, a felony) with someone who jaywalks? Seriously?

“Big of you, ajb. Thanks.”
Sure thing.

All I ask is that you come legally.

“This is not a trick question: what’s your opinion of the trade embargo against Cuba?”

If it served any purpose at all, that purpose ended when the Soviet Union collapsed.
I think it’s kept around through a sense of (for lack of a better word) vindictiveness, and for political reasons (lots of anti-castro voters in Florida).

-ajb

But yet, my arguments prove true that illegal immigration in its current form is a massive detriment to our society.

That said, I don’t think it’ll make much difference in most places. The guy who runs the yard business that my folks use doesn’t care if his employees are legal or not, and frankly neither does anyone else.

And, yeah, ending entitlements wouldn’t likely reduce illegal immigration by that much, but hey, if you can sell ending entitlements as a solution to the hot-button xenophobia issue of the day, at least you’ve ended entitlements. Replace them with the EITC, that’d be fine.

And, again, we’re back to the incentives issue: so long as the US has a much, much stronger economy than Mexico there will be a major incentive to border hop, even at the risk of getting caught. Measures sufficient to make that not the case, short of helping bring Mexico’s economy into at least the 20th century, will be both draconian and extremely costly.

Where the cost of running for the border is P(Caught)*C(Punishment) where C is some monetarized cost (from lost wages, imprisonment, etc) folks will try it so long as that remains below the gains for being here in the first place. Raising either is costly to the US, likely more costly than the illegals on welfare.

We know deportation doesn’t work, folks will just come back. Guy who worked at a construction company in Hood River with former OCer and new Ukiah Daily Journal employee Ben Brown was deported back to Mexico three times before coming to the states legally to stay. He walked. To Oregon. From Monterrey. Thrice. That’s how much better things are here.

Andy: So, am I reading this right, you plan on going and shooting them yourself??

And if you are talking minuteman, do you realize that as good a concept as minutemen may be, they are crossing private property lines with no respect to the owners rights?

As far as being a socialist, I don’t think of having an educated population as socialist. Read the republican platform if you don’t believe me.

“Also, I’m willing to compromise. If there was reciprocity with concealed weapons lisences like there is with drivers lisences,and repealed the gun control acts of 1968 and 1986, I would offer no more contest to whatever immigration policies.”

What the hell?!? Also, you forgot to throw in gay marriage, Lars Larson would be ashamed of you.