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	<title>Comments on: On Quitters</title>
	<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/</link>
	<description>Free Minds, Free Markets, Free Booze</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 08:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-5928</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-5928</guid>
		<description>Shouldn't someone sue the Corps of Engineers? They built the levies that allegedly reduced the wetlands, didn't they? Perhaps they should sue themselves under the Section 404 Clean Water Act for building inadequate foundations under the levies that failed and caused an illegal discharge into a Water of the United States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shouldn&#8217;t someone sue the Corps of Engineers? They built the levies that allegedly reduced the wetlands, didn&#8217;t they? Perhaps they should sue themselves under the Section 404 Clean Water Act for building inadequate foundations under the levies that failed and caused an illegal discharge into a Water of the United States.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>Are you the goddamn voice all of a sudden?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you the goddamn voice all of a sudden?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1526</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 21:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1526</guid>
		<description>Work on the summer issue begins after we decide what fonts to use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Work on the summer issue begins after we decide what fonts to use.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1525</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1525</guid>
		<description>What you need to address is the lack of a summer issue.  See also BTTB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you need to address is the lack of a summer issue.  See also BTTB.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1524</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2005 20:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1524</guid>
		<description>Dan,

Good point about the Columbia, I was looking for an easy and immediate example and should have looked a bit further. I would say that the extensive canal and levee system which encloses the Netherlands is a better example. 

Damn, need to get back to work. I'll address the rest of your comments later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>Good point about the Columbia, I was looking for an easy and immediate example and should have looked a bit further. I would say that the extensive canal and levee system which encloses the Netherlands is a better example. </p>
<p>Damn, need to get back to work. I&#8217;ll address the rest of your comments later.</p>
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		<title>By: Danimal</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1523</link>
		<dc:creator>Danimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1523</guid>
		<description>Ian, when you talk about what would happen if the Columbia started to move away from Portland:  that can't happen.  It's bounded to its present course by two mountain ranges.  Any analogy to the  fluvial open season at the mouth of the  Mississippi amounts to a willful denial of the reality of deltas. 

And speaking of denial, look at where Cairo is located.  Is it unthinkable not to have a port at the mouth of the Nile?  Or is it eminently thinkable to have a port miles inland, above the delta, where you can count on the ground beneath you?  Cairo is built to last.

I'm all for the American spirit of can-do optimism, but never quitting can paint you into some tight corners sometimes.  A resilient nation ought to also be sensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian, when you talk about what would happen if the Columbia started to move away from Portland:  that can&#8217;t happen.  It&#8217;s bounded to its present course by two mountain ranges.  Any analogy to the  fluvial open season at the mouth of the  Mississippi amounts to a willful denial of the reality of deltas. </p>
<p>And speaking of denial, look at where Cairo is located.  Is it unthinkable not to have a port at the mouth of the Nile?  Or is it eminently thinkable to have a port miles inland, above the delta, where you can count on the ground beneath you?  Cairo is built to last.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all for the American spirit of can-do optimism, but never quitting can paint you into some tight corners sometimes.  A resilient nation ought to also be sensible.</p>
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		<title>By: Danimal</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1522</link>
		<dc:creator>Danimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 13:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1522</guid>
		<description>Sounds like a plan, Lex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like a plan, Lex.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1521</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 11:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1521</guid>
		<description>I think we need to build a world-wide weather control system, personally.  How's that for thinking big?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we need to build a world-wide weather control system, personally.  How&#8217;s that for thinking big?</p>
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		<title>By: Danimal</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1520</link>
		<dc:creator>Danimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 01:54:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1520</guid>
		<description>Seriously, though, count me as a "mainstream and bi-partisan environmentalist concerned with coastal management."

However, merely being one doesn't mean I know what to do about the Mississippi Delta, other than urge everyone to read John McPhee's The Control of Nature.  I don't think acknowledging the limits of human control ought to mean getting oneself labeled an asshole or an environmental extremist.  While it may be "unthinkable that it wouldn't have a port at its mouth," the Mississippi may have other ideas.  It does move around, and likely will defeat the Corps of Engineers one of these days at Old River Control, and it will flow to a new mouth.  Then, the real risk for New Orleans will become clear:  not destruction by hurricane, which can be rebuilt, but obsolescence.  It will no longer be at the mouth.

Perhaps instead of rebuilding the port at the current mouth of the river, we build a major port above the delta and devote our resources not to levee maintenance but to intensive dredging of whatever channel the river is going with at the time.  

Or, hell, we're high tech:  how about a huge, floating, moveable port?  Let's reimagine New Orleans as raft.  Call it New New Orleans.  When hurricanes come we can send it far out to sea, where it will be safe from storm surges.

We gotta think big.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, though, count me as a &#8220;mainstream and bi-partisan environmentalist concerned with coastal management.&#8221;</p>
<p>However, merely being one doesn&#8217;t mean I know what to do about the Mississippi Delta, other than urge everyone to read John McPhee&#8217;s The Control of Nature.  I don&#8217;t think acknowledging the limits of human control ought to mean getting oneself labeled an asshole or an environmental extremist.  While it may be &#8220;unthinkable that it wouldn&#8217;t have a port at its mouth,&#8221; the Mississippi may have other ideas.  It does move around, and likely will defeat the Corps of Engineers one of these days at Old River Control, and it will flow to a new mouth.  Then, the real risk for New Orleans will become clear:  not destruction by hurricane, which can be rebuilt, but obsolescence.  It will no longer be at the mouth.</p>
<p>Perhaps instead of rebuilding the port at the current mouth of the river, we build a major port above the delta and devote our resources not to levee maintenance but to intensive dredging of whatever channel the river is going with at the time.  </p>
<p>Or, hell, we&#8217;re high tech:  how about a huge, floating, moveable port?  Let&#8217;s reimagine New Orleans as raft.  Call it New New Orleans.  When hurricanes come we can send it far out to sea, where it will be safe from storm surges.</p>
<p>We gotta think big.</p>
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		<title>By: Danimal</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1519</link>
		<dc:creator>Danimal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2005 01:42:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1519</guid>
		<description>No we don't!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No we don&#8217;t!</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1518</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 03:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1518</guid>
		<description>Your geology instructor was correct. The erosion of the wetlands is a direct consequence of the levee system.

With that being said, allowing the Mississippi (or any other river for that matter) to take its natural course is not an option. The mouth of the river isn't moving to one spot... its perpetually changing course. Considering that the Mississippi is economically the most important river in America, it's simply unthinkable that it wouldn't have a port at its mouth. Think about the Columbia River. If it decided to shift southwards, would Portland be abandoned? Of course not. Engineers would find a way to control the river.

The main problem with building the city elsewhere, however, is that so much of it still stands. Take a look at an aerial view. Should downtown, the french quarter, and most of uptown be simply abandoned? It would be unthinkable to do so.

I do appreciate the comment, though. We need more debate on this blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your geology instructor was correct. The erosion of the wetlands is a direct consequence of the levee system.</p>
<p>With that being said, allowing the Mississippi (or any other river for that matter) to take its natural course is not an option. The mouth of the river isn&#8217;t moving to one spot&#8230; its perpetually changing course. Considering that the Mississippi is economically the most important river in America, it&#8217;s simply unthinkable that it wouldn&#8217;t have a port at its mouth. Think about the Columbia River. If it decided to shift southwards, would Portland be abandoned? Of course not. Engineers would find a way to control the river.</p>
<p>The main problem with building the city elsewhere, however, is that so much of it still stands. Take a look at an aerial view. Should downtown, the french quarter, and most of uptown be simply abandoned? It would be unthinkable to do so.</p>
<p>I do appreciate the comment, though. We need more debate on this blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Gabrielle</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1517</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabrielle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Sep 2005 00:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1517</guid>
		<description>As far as I've been told (I may be mistaken, it was a leftist geology instructor that told me this) the destruction of the wetlands is directly tied to the building of levies. It has diverted the water elsewhere. I think what   really needs to be done is to let the river take a natural course and build the town elsewhere. (yes, yell at me it won't be the first time...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as I&#8217;ve been told (I may be mistaken, it was a leftist geology instructor that told me this) the destruction of the wetlands is directly tied to the building of levies. It has diverted the water elsewhere. I think what   really needs to be done is to let the river take a natural course and build the town elsewhere. (yes, yell at me it won&#8217;t be the first time&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1516</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Sep 2005 19:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/09/03/on-quitters/#comment-1516</guid>
		<description>Or maybe they will move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or maybe they will move.</p>
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