Comments on: Dan Flynn Liveblogging

By: Andy D.

Andy D. — Fri, 27 May 2005 02:12:09 +0000

Truth is the basis of positive human relationships. Society cannot exist without truth and promises. This is the basis of contracts in a praxeological sense. Would you have a friend if the dude lied to you all the time? Of course not, and you definatly wouldn’t have a business relationshop with them. Capitalism needs contract enforcement, and it will come about naturally without courts because no one will do business with someone who is dishonest. (For the most part). In history of economic evolution, capitalism in inevitable. It is what is most efficeint and what every society in the world has used. Even children understand trade and savings.

Religion has nothing to do with the creation of contracts. Business/Trade was before Jesus.

By: Scott Austin

Scott Austin — Tue, 24 May 2005 17:38:46 +0000

I am not saying that other complicating factors and influences have shaped the economic evolution of the world as a whole. YOu can’t look at, for example, the history of the Angles, Jutes and Saxons and their conflict lifestyle and not see how it affected their tribal legal systems and then not see the stark re-direction with the introduction of Augustine, and the slow adoption of what we know refer to as “common law”. While I agree there were aspects of common law that were influenced by Germanic and Celtic tribal means, Christianity can’t be taken out of the historical review. What is a common law marriage defined as? According to the Canton, a man and a woman living in the same home for a certrain number of days, bla bla bla. Anyway, I’m weary and in need of my bed. Later

By: Clint

Clint — Tue, 24 May 2005 15:15:26 +0000

So you think that contract enforcement has its roots in religious backgrounds.

You base that statement on the fact that the Asian world doesn’t have contract enforcement, nor did they have roots in the same religious background as the western world.

Is this the, “Bananna’s are fruit, Bananna’s are yellow, therefor all fruit is yellow.” argument?

I won’t deny that there is a chance you are right, but I will say there are probably more factors involved than western vs eastern religion, and you having lived there with first hand knowledge probably gives you more of a right to speculate than me.

Its just anytime someone tells me I’m true to my word because of religion, I scoff at it. I’m not an atheist, so much as I just hate religion.

By: Timothy

Timothy — Tue, 24 May 2005 15:02:30 +0000

Having a legal system largely influenced by religion, which I think all cultures do, is very different than having an official state religion. Or properly separating religion from the secular domain of the post-enlightenment nation-state.

I think it’s perfectly valid to attempt to draw a bright line between the domain of religion and the domain of the state, which is essentially what the Enlightenment brought about. Keep in mind also that many of the US founders were agnostics, unitarians, or atheists. A lot of early American political thought is obviously influenced by Hume, a noted atheist. Locke’s influence is also quite obvious, he believed that we could know with certainty that God exist, and also believed that the church and the state should be separate realms.

That the US Constitutional system was influenced by Judeo-Christian religion is undeniable, to say that it is wholly the result of said influence, I think, is pretty hyperbolic.

By: Scott

Scott — Tue, 24 May 2005 13:41:38 +0000

Ok, lay off me. All I meant was, the understanding of honoring your word, i.e., if I say I’ll do something I will, comes, I think, from religion, or from a religious perspective. That’s not to say that pure economics and self interest don’t also play into it, but hey, go and live in a country whose society has existed and developed over several thousands of years more than European society, and whose fabric does not rely on one end of a business deal honoring its word to do something, and then tell me that the Western approach to law, from the British notion of the Common Law on, is not largely influenced by religion. I look at it and say it is, but I have said from my first statement on this issue that it was merely my opinion and my perspective after living in Asia for the past year and a half and interacting with Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Korean and Vietnamese, if you can believe it, business people. They all seem to think that Western ideals of business, from conracts all the way down the line, is based on a Judeo/Christian understanding of the world, and so far as I have seen, I don’t disagree. I state emphatically, however, that if there is anything I have learned in the last year abroad, it is that I don’t know a whole hell of a lot, so I welcome correction, or even a “G-d you’re a dumb-ass.” The pride I had a year ago is no longer there. I understand I’m an idiot, and the only thing I can do is try to learn as much as I can and better myself through experience and education. If that’s not good enough, I guess I’m sorry.

By: Clint

Clint — Mon, 23 May 2005 16:34:37 +0000

Right, contracts and everything else in American society are wholely based on religion.

I’m not saying you can’t point to “In God We Trust” printed on every piece of currency America has made in the last 100 years as proof that “religion permeates every facet of life,” I’m just saying shut up Scott.

By: Timothy

Timothy — Mon, 23 May 2005 16:26:53 +0000

No one will ever love you Scott.

By: Danimal

Danimal — Mon, 23 May 2005 13:52:00 +0000

Did I miss something in Sunday school about contracts?

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 22 May 2005 02:33:15 +0000

I have only one substantive criticism Ian, and that is on your idea of the separation of church and State. And before any of you who know me presume that I am going to posit that the Christian cross be branded on students asses, let me pre-empt and assure you that I am not. I would merely like to point out that religion permeates every facet of life, no matter where you are. Christian ideology and dogma, as well as Judaic doctrine, eminate from American law and life. Something as basic and simple as economics and the concept of Contract enforcement has its roots not, as some would surmize, in pure economics, but rather in reigious experience. Live in Asia for a year and see how contracts are viewed (In Chinese, the word “contract” means literally “suggestion” and they are not at all enforced) and how the economy still manages to rumble on and grow, and then look at the very fabric of how Americans and, indeed Europeans, do business every day. Look me in the face when you have done that and tell me that the State really is separated from the church. I doubt very much that you will be able to, but then that’s just my inclination. Oh, and for Melissa, Aisan women are hot and they love me!:)

By: Casey

Casey — Fri, 20 May 2005 13:40:44 +0000

Very astute Ian. I read about half of “Why the Left Hates America” (which I got from the library) and was thoroughly unimpressed. The contention that the not-so-far left embraces the far-left while the not-so-far right doesn’t embraces the far-right is BS, and Flynn knows it. Even-minded people reject extremism, morons and people with anger problems often don’t, period. Flynn throws bombs to sell books, just like Frog feigns poverty to sell books. Both are exceedingly boring.