Sorry Clint, got confused with who said what. I was saying the Asian approach to education lead to clones. Actually pubic schools cost a lot more than private. Everyone pays for public school from ~18+ years old, and only those parents for 16 or less years pay for private schools, in addition for ALSO paying for public schools. You just said your self, private school is more efficient, and better than public schools. So why can’t we treat it like other welfare programs if we want everyone to have the good? give vouchers. Our public schools are failing because there isn’t a strong incentive to care about them. Same thing with my argument against Scott’s; people act to better themselves, not to better “society.” If everyone wants to help society, just do whatever you think is right : )

“Yes Clint, all those Taiwanese people who VOTED for thier own government would love to be under the thumb of the communists. Don’t you think is easier to vote to be annexed then fighting a war to defend your self from annexation, but then thats what they actually wanted…..????”

Uhm, lets see here.. #1) My comment “Taiwan’s not really a country. They’re just waiting for China to come annex them.” was made in jest. As I’m sure you are aware, that is probably the single most turbulent area for potential MAJOR conflicts in the entire world during the past 10 years, when you consider the magnitude of what threats, treaties, and military build-up has gone on. Case in point, we’re obliged to help “defend” Taiwan if China attacks. That is written in stone. China will declare war on Taiwan if the Taiwanese go on record declaring independence, this was reinforced in a recent (last month) governmental decree. And in the meantime we all pretty much think Taiwan is its own seperate entity, even though there is no country that recognizes them as such. It’s a vicious cycle. Do I think the Taiwanese want to be annexed? No. Not at all. Again, I was being sarcastic with this comment. Satire’s apparently not your strong point.

“We have tons of planning here in America, Clint. There are clear and defined syallabus for every teacher in America on what should be tought at every grade level. Thats the reason our schools are #1 in the world, especially those private universities that receive no government money….wait!!!! The STATE schools are the crappiest! hrm…
If we toss our kids into school boot camp, they’ll be sure to beat the Americans in academics… Seems like what is actually happening is a bunch of clones without creativity.”

Uhh, why was this addressed to me? I mentioned nothing about American schools or universities, I don’t know if you got off on some tangent from your dialog with Scott and felt it needed to be brow beaten into me, but hey.. whatever man.

Do I think our government should play a role in education? Yes. Education is a public good. As far as private schools surpassing public schools in the department of education, that has more to do with the parents that are willing to shell out the big bucks to see their kids with a student to teacher ratio of 12:1 than it does with the role of our government planning. Plain and simple, sure private schools are going to be more efficient, and they’re also costing more per student than our public schools do.

Personally? I’m sending my kids to a private school. The idea that we’re creating a “bunch of clones without creativity” is pretty poor in my mind. American culture alone would never allow such a thing.

You even say yourself you can’t compare countries because their language is different, but you can compare thier contract enforement to english learning? You defeat your own argument by saying that first language is a MORE IMPORTANT FACTOR than contract enforcement.

Yes Clint, all those Taiwanese people who VOTED for thier own government would love to be under the thumb of the communists. Don’t you think is easier to vote to be annexed then fighting a war to defend your self from annexation, but then thats what they actually wanted…..????

We have tons of planning here in America, Clint. There are clear and defined syallabus for every teacher in America on what should be tought at every grade level. Thats the reason our schools are #1 in the world, especially those private universities that receive no government money….wait!!!! The STATE schools are the crappiest! hrm…

If we toss our kids into school boot camp, they’ll be sure to beat the Americans in academics… Seems like what is actually happening is a bunch of clones without creativity.

What is the comparison between Taiwan and China EPT’s anyway? My guess is extremely close. I don’t think comparing Taiwan with a economic superpower like Japan is realistic either, despite the similarities with their “non-alphabet” systems.

As to why Taiwan is so behind the others, I wonder if its contract enforcement or the lack of planning for education on the government’s behalf. Do the Taiwanese children regularly attend school 7 days a week like the Japanese?

In the case of badly definied property rights, there may be a pareto improvement if those rights were enforced. Externalities tend to arise as a result of the non-existance of property rights, and a surprising number of them could be solved with market action if property rights could be defined.

Again, there’s a lot going for an at-will workforce (US teaching suffers from exactly the opposite problem of Taiwan), but in that case it’d be better to do away with the contracting than to have them ignored. Having contracts that are ignored adds noise, and acts as a somewhat distracting signalling mechanism. I contend it’s better to not have a law about something than it is to have a law that isn’t enforced.

Taiwan also doesn’t operate in a vacuum, and if the best teachers don’t like the instability of being employed there, Taiwan is going to have an adverse selection problem. I’m not sure this is the case, but if the goal of the Taiwanese government is English acquisition, they might start by trying contract enforcement.

Now, whether that is a legitimate duty of the Taiwanese government, well, that’s an entirely different question.

Also, there’s a market in governments: it’s called immigration.

When the government “forces me to give them money with the threat of inprisonment,” that destroys the free market, which by definiton leads to a less than possible efficient outcome.

I believe that looking out for your neighbors property is a good thing; groups can be very efficient compared to individuals (i.e. corporations,the grouping of labor). Cooperation doesn’t require the government intervention. What I am saying also, is that no other individual on earth can know my needs better than me.

Tim, if we lived in a world where we were only concerned with total welfare, anyone with anything to offer would be sacrificed to the welfare of those who had nothing to offer. From an economic standpoint, we cannot quantify, other than in price value of goods, what somones utility is, let alone compare it or add it to others. Utility is ordinal.

Again, the difference I want to point out that the government that we have today is a violent hegemony (literal definition, i still love America), vs a free market alternative in which we would be able to leave a government. This seems like a far stretch, but humans cannot exist in society without forming government, I believe this. That being said, in a free market, you have the ability to leave a government, losing the benifits/costs associated with it.

“In those countries that have strict contract enforcement, English Acquisition is much higher, and learning more fluid.” That is a very subjective and not easily supportable statement : )