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	<title>Comments on: Hey, Alanis: This is Ironic.  Don&#8217;t ya Think?</title>
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	<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/</link>
	<description>Free Minds, Free Markets, Free Booze</description>
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		<title>By: Clint T.</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-626</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-626</guid>
		<description>Yea, no big deal.  I personally liked how she pulled the trifecta with her last post.. the-momma-joke, the-you&#039;re-nobody-joke, and the-you&#039;re-not-3l33t-joke.  Hey, if you don&#039;t know HTML.. then you might have a life outside of websites!

I mean, that took some serious brainpower.. or just incredible amounts of frustration.. you pick which one.

Hey Mel, just put the goddamn issue online already, damnit.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea, no big deal.  I personally liked how she pulled the trifecta with her last post.. the-momma-joke, the-you&#8217;re-nobody-joke, and the-you&#8217;re-not-3l33t-joke.  Hey, if you don&#8217;t know HTML.. then you might have a life outside of websites!</p>
<p>I mean, that took some serious brainpower.. or just incredible amounts of frustration.. you pick which one.</p>
<p>Hey Mel, just put the goddamn issue online already, damnit.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-625</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-625</guid>
		<description>Sure, Clint Who?  Oh, right, Clint of the blog.  Who is nobody, except maybe to his mother, who hit on me last night. I really couldn&#039;t care less what you have to say about me.

Oh, and learn HTML.  Honestly.  You shouldn&#039;t be posting without it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, Clint Who?  Oh, right, Clint of the blog.  Who is nobody, except maybe to his mother, who hit on me last night. I really couldn&#8217;t care less what you have to say about me.</p>
<p>Oh, and learn HTML.  Honestly.  You shouldn&#8217;t be posting without it.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint T.</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-624</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-624</guid>
		<description>Status: Feeding tube removed Friday.  Still alive Monday, one arrest for attempting to bring Terri water.

Link

..and the latest news about the nations favorite vegetable?  You thought Congress getting involved was going to be annoying?  Jeb, seriously damnit.. why?!

link


Off the subject, but I bet you thought it was just limited to Springfield city limits:

link

Anyone who can make those clickable, please do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Status: Feeding tube removed Friday.  Still alive Monday, one arrest for attempting to bring Terri water.</p>
<p>Link</p>
<p>..and the latest news about the nations favorite vegetable?  You thought Congress getting involved was going to be annoying?  Jeb, seriously damnit.. why?!</p>
<p>link</p>
<p>Off the subject, but I bet you thought it was just limited to Springfield city limits:</p>
<p>link</p>
<p>Anyone who can make those clickable, please do.</p>
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		<title>By: Clint T.</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-623</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:51:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-623</guid>
		<description>Well then by-all-means, please do put your magazine out.  It&#039;ll keep me mildly entertained, and perhaps your latest column can be more thought provoking than, &quot;Crashing The Party.&quot;  A real piece of great work there.  It&#039;s a good thing you&#039;ve always got that &quot;I&#039;m an anthropology major...&quot; thing to fall back on. ;) 

If I feel so strongly to submit something.. can it include your line of rationale in which you start with an argument against lawsuits like this because the family, &quot;Sued for the doctor not informing the husband (and family) about the medical disorder, which he couldn&#039;t because it was a violation of confidentiality..&quot; and morphs inexplicably to, &quot;They sued the doctor for his inability to properly treat an eating disorder..&quot; and finally settles belligerently on, &quot;I am telling you that the doctor isn&#039;t liable, and I stand by it.&quot;  All of which were either factually inaccurate or completely based on normative judgments which fail to provide any intellectual basis whatsoever.

As far as, &quot;reading the case closely..&quot; Apparently I&#039;ve done more of that than you have in my less-than-24-hour-perusing-of-the-case, because in my brief search of articles this morning.. I found TERRI DID HAVE PHYSICAL SIGNS OF HER CONDITION other than the non-existence of a menstrual cycle.  Most notably: 

&quot;Woodworth and Miami lawyer Gary Fox maintained that [Stephen] Igel saw Mrs. Schiavo four times over a year and never asked about her nutrition and never noticed the loose skin and stretch marks resulting from her substantial weight loss.&quot;

Never asked about her nutrition.. and never noticed the loose skin/stretch marks.  Wouldn&#039;t that qualify to strike down your comment, &quot;Terri had no visible physical symptoms other than her menses loss.&quot;  You&#039;re citing examples of general bulimia from a website, while the facts to the matter point to the existence of physical evidence on Terri&#039;s body.  Lets not forget the fact that there is evidence of weight loss that was apparently ignored by the doctor during Terri&#039;s visits.

Anyway, in the interests of putting this to bed I will say Terri was mostly to blame for her own situation.  Apparently the jury for the case agrees with that, to the tune of 70%.  The doctor&#039;s negligence was responsible for the other 30% - he did not properly care for his patient.

I do agree with your generalization that American&#039;s are too lawsuit happy, as Casey has personal testimony on, and a good example of.  In this case, however, with the information provided, it sounds like the doctor didn&#039;t tell Terri - &quot;You have an eating disorder that is causing a myriad of health problems.&quot;  Why he didn&#039;t tell her that was because he failed to pick up on the physical evidence of her condition.  Again, that turns out to be 70% her fault, and 30% his.

At either case, where the f&#039;k is the new issue?  And Tim.. thats hilarious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well then by-all-means, please do put your magazine out.  It&#8217;ll keep me mildly entertained, and perhaps your latest column can be more thought provoking than, &#8220;Crashing The Party.&#8221;  A real piece of great work there.  It&#8217;s a good thing you&#8217;ve always got that &#8220;I&#8217;m an anthropology major&#8230;&#8221; thing to fall back on. ;) </p>
<p>If I feel so strongly to submit something.. can it include your line of rationale in which you start with an argument against lawsuits like this because the family, &#8220;Sued for the doctor not informing the husband (and family) about the medical disorder, which he couldn&#8217;t because it was a violation of confidentiality..&#8221; and morphs inexplicably to, &#8220;They sued the doctor for his inability to properly treat an eating disorder..&#8221; and finally settles belligerently on, &#8220;I am telling you that the doctor isn&#8217;t liable, and I stand by it.&#8221;  All of which were either factually inaccurate or completely based on normative judgments which fail to provide any intellectual basis whatsoever.</p>
<p>As far as, &#8220;reading the case closely..&#8221; Apparently I&#8217;ve done more of that than you have in my less-than-24-hour-perusing-of-the-case, because in my brief search of articles this morning.. I found TERRI DID HAVE PHYSICAL SIGNS OF HER CONDITION other than the non-existence of a menstrual cycle.  Most notably: </p>
<p>&#8220;Woodworth and Miami lawyer Gary Fox maintained that [Stephen] Igel saw Mrs. Schiavo four times over a year and never asked about her nutrition and never noticed the loose skin and stretch marks resulting from her substantial weight loss.&#8221;</p>
<p>Never asked about her nutrition.. and never noticed the loose skin/stretch marks.  Wouldn&#8217;t that qualify to strike down your comment, &#8220;Terri had no visible physical symptoms other than her menses loss.&#8221;  You&#8217;re citing examples of general bulimia from a website, while the facts to the matter point to the existence of physical evidence on Terri&#8217;s body.  Lets not forget the fact that there is evidence of weight loss that was apparently ignored by the doctor during Terri&#8217;s visits.</p>
<p>Anyway, in the interests of putting this to bed I will say Terri was mostly to blame for her own situation.  Apparently the jury for the case agrees with that, to the tune of 70%.  The doctor&#8217;s negligence was responsible for the other 30% &#8211; he did not properly care for his patient.</p>
<p>I do agree with your generalization that American&#8217;s are too lawsuit happy, as Casey has personal testimony on, and a good example of.  In this case, however, with the information provided, it sounds like the doctor didn&#8217;t tell Terri &#8211; &#8220;You have an eating disorder that is causing a myriad of health problems.&#8221;  Why he didn&#8217;t tell her that was because he failed to pick up on the physical evidence of her condition.  Again, that turns out to be 70% her fault, and 30% his.</p>
<p>At either case, where the f&#8217;k is the new issue?  And Tim.. thats hilarious.</p>
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		<title>By: Casey</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-622</link>
		<dc:creator>Casey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:49:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-622</guid>
		<description>The Pope pool is a suckers bet.  Even when he does die (which I think he might have already) the cover-up is going to skew any official results.  A parley with Shiavo and the Pope might be a good idea though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pope pool is a suckers bet.  Even when he does die (which I think he might have already) the cover-up is going to skew any official results.  A parley with Shiavo and the Pope might be a good idea though.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-621</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-621</guid>
		<description>No one invited me?  I have the Pope pool goin&#039; on over here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No one invited me?  I have the Pope pool goin&#8217; on over here.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-620</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-620</guid>
		<description>Also, I so should&#039;ve picked Terri for my celebrity death pool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, I so should&#8217;ve picked Terri for my celebrity death pool.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-619</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-619</guid>
		<description>Terri are you dead yet, are you dead yet Terri?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terri are you dead yet, are you dead yet Terri?</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-618</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-618</guid>
		<description>Clint: I have a magazine to put out, yo.  Maybe you should read THAT instead of pouring your emotions into a blog and walking the thin line between troll and faceless jackass.  If you feel so strongly, why don&#039;t you submit something?  Of course, given your posts here, I doubt we&#039;d give it a second look before it hit the recycle bin..  
  
If you read the case closely, Terri had no visible physical symptoms other than her menses loss.  Eating disorders aren&#039;t always obvious.  I am telling you that the doctor isn&#039;t liable, and I stand by it.  I&#039;m not anti-lawsuit, I just think that the American public is too sue-happy lately when they don&#039;t get what they want out of doctors.  

You said, 
&quot;Did he do his job as a doctor to properly diagnose and propose remedy for the patients problem? Absolutely not. And that is why he got sued. He dropped the ball.&quot;
Diagnosing bulimia wasn&#039;t his job.  It wasn&#039;t his area of expertise.  Diagnosing a missing period, that&#039;s his job.  It is not an easy job to do; can&#039;t just pop in there like a mechanic, do some tests and declare the problem. 

Note that bulimia is on the  Psych Central website (not the GYN site) and that it states:
&quot;Family, friends, and physicians may have difficulty detecting bulimia in someone they know. Many individuals with the disorder remain at normal body weight or above because of their frequent binges and purges, which can range from once or twice a week to several times a day.&quot;

 Womens Center for Mind-Body Health  is also a good site, though too holistic for my taste.  You may understand the disorder in question better, and I&#039;m sure you&#039;ll agree that the case was properly thrown out by FDH. 

If you think I&#039;m not informed:
 Hyscience, one of my favorites.  A tidbit:  

&quot;Contrary to the account of writer Chachere, there was never a determination by any court nor the Florida Department of Health that Terri Schiavo ever suffered from any eating disorder, bulimia, anorexia or compulsive behavior that would lead to a heart failure at the age of 26.
Indeed, Florida s Department of Health had completely and absolutely cleared Terris general practitioner of any negligence or wrong-doing in her case. This was after the physician had been accused by Terris husband of ignoring evidence of an eating disorder.
Additionally, at the time of her mysterious medical episode, Terri Schiavo stood 53 and weighed somewhere between 115 and 118 pounds  a slim, but normal stature and weight.&quot;

Now as to me being a liberal white woman, I&#039;ll leave you with your accusations thus far:
At either case, bringing this sort of thing into the discussion reminds me of all the crap the liberals there at the university used to love to throw into arguments, &quot;..well seeing as how you&#039;re a WHITE MALE.. you could never understand what it&#039;s like to be a pigmy hermaphrodite whose missing a toe and thumb while living under the oppressive rule of a Chilian dictator that..&quot; You get the picture. 


and...

Now, I can&#039;t really tell if you&#039;re just on the anti-lawsuit bandwagon, repeating the rhetoric of the republican all mighty, just so you can be en vogue with the group around here..

Dude.  Which one is it?  Am I a liberal poo-flinging chimp, or a republican witch with a broom up my ass?  Can&#039;t be both..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clint: I have a magazine to put out, yo.  Maybe you should read THAT instead of pouring your emotions into a blog and walking the thin line between troll and faceless jackass.  If you feel so strongly, why don&#8217;t you submit something?  Of course, given your posts here, I doubt we&#8217;d give it a second look before it hit the recycle bin..  </p>
<p>If you read the case closely, Terri had no visible physical symptoms other than her menses loss.  Eating disorders aren&#8217;t always obvious.  I am telling you that the doctor isn&#8217;t liable, and I stand by it.  I&#8217;m not anti-lawsuit, I just think that the American public is too sue-happy lately when they don&#8217;t get what they want out of doctors.  </p>
<p>You said,<br />
&#8220;Did he do his job as a doctor to properly diagnose and propose remedy for the patients problem? Absolutely not. And that is why he got sued. He dropped the ball.&#8221;<br />
Diagnosing bulimia wasn&#8217;t his job.  It wasn&#8217;t his area of expertise.  Diagnosing a missing period, that&#8217;s his job.  It is not an easy job to do; can&#8217;t just pop in there like a mechanic, do some tests and declare the problem. </p>
<p>Note that bulimia is on the  Psych Central website (not the GYN site) and that it states:<br />
&#8220;Family, friends, and physicians may have difficulty detecting bulimia in someone they know. Many individuals with the disorder remain at normal body weight or above because of their frequent binges and purges, which can range from once or twice a week to several times a day.&#8221;</p>
<p> Womens Center for Mind-Body Health  is also a good site, though too holistic for my taste.  You may understand the disorder in question better, and I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll agree that the case was properly thrown out by FDH. </p>
<p>If you think I&#8217;m not informed:<br />
 Hyscience, one of my favorites.  A tidbit:  </p>
<p>&#8220;Contrary to the account of writer Chachere, there was never a determination by any court nor the Florida Department of Health that Terri Schiavo ever suffered from any eating disorder, bulimia, anorexia or compulsive behavior that would lead to a heart failure at the age of 26.<br />
Indeed, Florida s Department of Health had completely and absolutely cleared Terris general practitioner of any negligence or wrong-doing in her case. This was after the physician had been accused by Terris husband of ignoring evidence of an eating disorder.<br />
Additionally, at the time of her mysterious medical episode, Terri Schiavo stood 53 and weighed somewhere between 115 and 118 pounds  a slim, but normal stature and weight.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now as to me being a liberal white woman, I&#8217;ll leave you with your accusations thus far:<br />
At either case, bringing this sort of thing into the discussion reminds me of all the crap the liberals there at the university used to love to throw into arguments, &#8220;..well seeing as how you&#8217;re a WHITE MALE.. you could never understand what it&#8217;s like to be a pigmy hermaphrodite whose missing a toe and thumb while living under the oppressive rule of a Chilian dictator that..&#8221; You get the picture. </p>
<p>and&#8230;</p>
<p>Now, I can&#8217;t really tell if you&#8217;re just on the anti-lawsuit bandwagon, repeating the rhetoric of the republican all mighty, just so you can be en vogue with the group around here..</p>
<p>Dude.  Which one is it?  Am I a liberal poo-flinging chimp, or a republican witch with a broom up my ass?  Can&#8217;t be both..</p>
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		<title>By: Clint T.</title>
		<link>http://www.oregoncommentator.com/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/comment-page-1/#comment-617</link>
		<dc:creator>Clint T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2005 18:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.oregoncommentator.com/wordpress/2005/03/22/hey-alanis-this-is-ironic-dont-ya-think/#comment-617</guid>
		<description>In some of the stuff I read today.. they said there&#039;s still $300k+/- available in the TS trust fund.  Although I do agree with you about your types of lawsuits.. but thats also why we carry car insurance.  And the insurance people have big bad lawyers and deeper pocket books to force settlements like they did in your case.

A friend of mine in Eugene, whose wife is a rather wealthy dentist, hit an eldery man (who was supposed to be under the direct supervision and care of his family) while he was j-walking across the street.  There was a fire truck who witnessed the incident and indicated the fire truck needed to swirve out of the way to avoid hitting the man.  The eldery man, died a couple of days later from the injuries associated with the collision.  The mankiller (aptly nicknamed), was a &#039;00 Red Nissan Pathfinder.

The retardo-family of the eldery man sued for $7 million dollars.  Lets not forget the fact he was only released from the hospital under the pretense that his family would provide direct supervision and not let him go wandering out on the streets, like he did.  The lawsuit was broken down neatly into 5-6 different parts, similar to what you&#039;re saying with &quot;250k here.. 150k there..&quot;  I remember while reading it the funniest part was the $1 million for potentially lost wages from the eldery man.  I&#039;m not sure what social security was paying the guy.. but at 80+ years old I&#039;d have to say he must have had one helluva a life expectancy to garner that in lost wages.  Something to the tune of about 274 years old.

Like your story, this one had a happy ending with the insurance company settling for significantly less than the $7 million asked for.  Not a dollar, other than the deductable for damage to the &#039;mankiller&#039;, from my friend&#039;s pocket.  Its a happy ending to a terrible story.

Friend: &quot;Nothing pisses me off more than assholes who take a tragic incident and do their best to make a buck off of it.&quot;

Me: &quot;What are you talking about, thats the American Way!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In some of the stuff I read today.. they said there&#8217;s still $300k+/- available in the TS trust fund.  Although I do agree with you about your types of lawsuits.. but thats also why we carry car insurance.  And the insurance people have big bad lawyers and deeper pocket books to force settlements like they did in your case.</p>
<p>A friend of mine in Eugene, whose wife is a rather wealthy dentist, hit an eldery man (who was supposed to be under the direct supervision and care of his family) while he was j-walking across the street.  There was a fire truck who witnessed the incident and indicated the fire truck needed to swirve out of the way to avoid hitting the man.  The eldery man, died a couple of days later from the injuries associated with the collision.  The mankiller (aptly nicknamed), was a &#8216;00 Red Nissan Pathfinder.</p>
<p>The retardo-family of the eldery man sued for $7 million dollars.  Lets not forget the fact he was only released from the hospital under the pretense that his family would provide direct supervision and not let him go wandering out on the streets, like he did.  The lawsuit was broken down neatly into 5-6 different parts, similar to what you&#8217;re saying with &#8220;250k here.. 150k there..&#8221;  I remember while reading it the funniest part was the $1 million for potentially lost wages from the eldery man.  I&#8217;m not sure what social security was paying the guy.. but at 80+ years old I&#8217;d have to say he must have had one helluva a life expectancy to garner that in lost wages.  Something to the tune of about 274 years old.</p>
<p>Like your story, this one had a happy ending with the insurance company settling for significantly less than the $7 million asked for.  Not a dollar, other than the deductable for damage to the &#8216;mankiller&#8217;, from my friend&#8217;s pocket.  Its a happy ending to a terrible story.</p>
<p>Friend: &#8220;Nothing pisses me off more than assholes who take a tragic incident and do their best to make a buck off of it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Me: &#8220;What are you talking about, thats the American Way!&#8221;</p>
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